42 replies to this topic

[n.x.w.m]

UAL is going to phase out their Boeing 747-400's soon. Like 2016, I think ( )

[bolli]

BA have just brought another one back from the desert - with rumors that they could again bring their fleet up to 55 - 2 of their 57 will never fly again and are in the process of being scrapped.

Also this is happening because the 747-400 was originally intended to be replaced years ago and by todays standard it is horribly inefficient.
JAL have already gotten rid of theirs too

[violetQueen]

I think there's still 800 odd 747s in service out of the 1,400 built (i think), 600 of those are supposed to be -400s and JAL used to be the biggest operator of the 747 but they've retired their last 35 this year which is pretty sad, I thought the 747 looked awesome in their livery. I think there's about 50 744s parked up now and by 2013 ANZ, AI and SK are all going to have phased out their 747s in favor of the 777 or A380....

TBH it was inevitable the moment the 77W was made, it does most of the 744s mission profiles with two less engines and provides commonality with the 77E which was already in service across most major fleets. One problem I see occurring is that with all these (young) 747s in the desert they'll be snapped up for freight service because their value will have plummeted, it kinda hurts the sales of the 747-8... time will tell.

[Spenser]

the 747-8 was only ordered by Lufthansa and Korean Air, most are going to cargo airlines

[Concagh98]

The Boeing 747 is going through a downturn. BA (British Airways) is a long-time Boeing customer (it has the largest amount of 747s), but even they are ordering A380s.

[violetQueen]

BA has a tendency to wait until said aircraft is in service before they order in bulk... they aren't yet replacing all their 744's with 380s, so I believe they could place a 748 order down the line.

That depends how aggressively Boeing pitches to them.

[bolli]

The Boeing 747 is going through a downturn. BA (British Airways) is a long-time Boeing customer (it has the largest amount of 747s), but even they are ordering A380s.

There are still going to be 747-8s in BA livery... one is even half painted

[violetQueen]

Yeah We should be seeing it in oct-nov

[h3llr4iser]

violetQueen has explained it well, the 747's worst enemy is its "little" 777 brother, inherently more efficient by having only two engines while keeping a similar passenger capacity and range.

It's a similar story to what happened to Airbus with the A340 vs A330; They tried to introduce bigger and more efficient variants (-500 and -600) to no effect; Wherever possible, the airlines preferred the twin engine jet over the quad.

The reason airlines ARE picking the A380 is that it does offer a combination of range, capacity and efficiency that's currently unrivaled; This could change if the future A350 holds true to Airbus' expectations and play the "twin engine kills quad" game all over again.

[ar157]

violetQueen has explained it well, the 747's worst enemy is its "little" 777 brother, inherently more efficient by having only two engines while keeping a similar passenger capacity and range.

It's a similar story to what happened to Airbus with the A340 vs A330; They tried to introduce bigger and more efficient variants (-500 and -600) to no effect; Wherever possible, the airlines preferred the twin engine jet over the quad.

The reason airlines ARE picking the A380 is that it does offer a combination of range, capacity and efficiency that's currently unrivaled; This could change if the future A350 holds true to Airbus' expectations and play the "twin engine kills quad" game all over again.

yep, A388 as it is today is the CASM king right now so if you can actually fill the seat, you can sell the tickets much cheaper. The low CASM also means that airlines can operate at low, luxurious configurations.

[M4matthew]

yep, A388 as it is today is the CASM king right now so if you can actually fill the seat, you can sell the tickets much cheaper. The low CASM also means that airlines can operate at low, luxurious configurations.

The Achilles heal of the A380, however, is it's lack of available cargo space... Take your standard wide-body... It has 1 passenger deck and 1 cargo hold for luggage and freight. The A380 has 2 passenger decks, but still only 1 cargo hold for twice as much luggage - meaning it carries less freight.

The A380 carries twice the passengers as your conventional wide body, but carries less freight than the standard wide-body.
With the current uncertainty regarding the air passenger market - freight is an important revenue earner for airlines like Cathay Pacific, British Airways, Japan Airlines, Korean Air and Lufthansa - to name but a few. I wouldn't be surprised if we've seen the end of A380 orders from this kind of carrier, for this (and other) reasons.

However, the A380 would work well for any potential or emerging long haul LCC carrier - who could quite happily fill it with 850 pax from Beijing to Los Angeles for dirt cheap fares, as for LCCs, freight is not such a big cash cow (if at all).

[ar157]

However, the A380 would work well for any potential or emerging long haul LCC carrier - who could quite happily fill it with 850 pax from Beijing to Los Angeles for dirt cheap fares, as for LCCs, freight is not such a big cash cow (if at all).

Well i do know that JQ carry fish from tassie up to sydney which are then loaded on to a QF? up to HKG

[M4matthew]

Well i do know that JQ carry fish from tassie up to sydney which are then loaded on to a QF? up to HKG

But isn't JQ a subsidiary of Qantas? They probably have some sort of negotiation that means JQ carry the fish from Hobart to Sydney so they can meet the connection to HKG... There will always be exceptions, but on the whole, LCCs tend not to carry freight... It doesn't fit with their fast turn around model, also they tend to fly to outer city airports away from freight terminals.

[Kirkland]

747 IS

[Selene]

Many airlines these days like KLM aren't too happy with their 747-400's because of their relatively high fuel consumption compared to aircraft like the 777 and A330

[ringo888]

i think airlines are wanting new technology such as the airbus a380 and the Boeing 787. Boeing made a fatal mistake by leaving a few years between the 747-400 and 747-8i giving airbus a chance to catch airlines with ageing 747s. the passenger 747-8i only has 40 order for the passenger model

[james767]

We could get a 747-8i as the new Air Force One and a 787 as the new Air Force Two

I think that the a380 would be a better Air Force One but airbus said there not going bid for the contract

[Ioh]

AirForce One will always be an american built plane

[mxax-ai]

EDIT. Double post

[mxax-ai]

BA are replacing the 747s on LHR-LAX with double daily A380s, increasing capacity although reducing frequency. Seems to be a pretty important market for them.