95 replies to this topic

[Pacific]

That's 8 unused gates in Rome and 9 unused gates in Naples - out of 14. He has 4 Beeches with a daily utilization of 16.75 hours. Unused gates, spare hours on Bees... why not combine the two?

Real-world companies only run "properly" when the auditors come about. In the world of AE, they come at the end of the 24th.

To minimise losses, Limbo (and every other airline with the gates) will only run these loss making routes when the auditors are about - on the 24th.

Talking RL slot hogging, FedEx used Cessnas to use their Narita slots during the SARS crisis and the associated crash in cargo traffic.


This discussion comes up every single round. As Glenn pointed out, the source has to be tackled. This can be:

1. Through the coding.
2. Miller/TW formally outlawing such actions and pass the enforcement to the anti-cheat team.

[Glennos]

I don't even think this should be an anti-cheat police matter , same as the half price frame issue, it should be done in the coding.

Once it's not possible then people wont do it, end of story.

[caro]

And your point is Pacific? This is gate hogging; he still holds on those gates, protecting his hub - making those gates unavailable to other players.

[FlyNCL]

And your point is Caro, why shouldn't he do that?

[LOT 737-300]

Real-world companies only run "properly" when the auditors come about. In the world of AE, they come at the end of the 24th.

To minimise losses, Limbo (and every other airline with the gates) will only run these loss making routes when the auditors are about - on the 24th.

Talking RL slot hogging, FedEx used Cessnas to use their Narita slots during the SARS crisis and the associated crash in cargo traffic.


This discussion comes up every single round. As Glenn pointed out, the source has to be tackled. This can be:

1. Through the coding.
2. Miller/TW formally outlawing such actions and pass the enforcement to the anti-cheat team.

But TW did plan to outlaw this back in real August. He just havn't gotten aroudn to it. Really, gate hoggers should not be allowed in this game. In reality, if the airport (WHO OWNS THE GATES) feels that the gate are not being used properly. In this case, the script would have to be written up to determine that or the Anti-Cheat Police will have to take a look see to major big time hoggers. I still say that the hoggers who hog gates to curb competition or try to save them for a hub when they have a bunch of big time planes in the next few AE years are still pretty pathetic. Also, is there a SARS outbreak in the AE world? Is there? I really don't recall ORD, MDW, DEN, CDG, and LHR having a SARS outbreak. What FedEx did, Thats justifyable, nobody wanted stuff from Asia then. But there is no SARS outbreak in the AE world (sorry hoggers) so they're actions are not justified, and from what I read so far, I still don't think their actions are justifyable.

[Lewinki]

It's just sick small little airports like DAY are almost out of gates...

[Glennos]

I don't see what the anti cheat police has got to do with this? What can they do?

Can you fly 5, 10 , 15 or ?? freq , were do you draw the line? And if you draw the line somewhere what use is it to have people searching through the airlines to see who is breaking the rules (once they have been made) when a simple script change can do that for you.

What you think is irrelevant, rules are what counts and seeing that there are no hard and fast rules on this issue people can quite "legally" do what they want.

As I mentioned before this is similar to another big issue of selling half price planes from / to feeders, this too can be easily fixed by a script change. Having people here decide what should and should not be done is not going to get us anywhere. It is a problem that has been prevalant in the last 2 rounds (the last round more than anything) and wont go away.

A small contributor to this is that users who do not login for more than 2 weeks keep their gates, this was different before in that the gates were returned.

A couple of small script changes are all that's needed to stop a load of bitching on these forums. The devvers will get round to that when they have time to do it i'm sure of that.

And remember , it's a free game and no one forces you to play it.

[LOT 737-300]

Actually, pretty much all of the Ohio airports are out. Don't know if this is because of gate hoggers though, but if it is, shame on the hoggers.

[BAW Select]

Well I just snapped up the last of the LIN gates, but Im going to sell them, not keep them, is that a problem or is that ok?

[LOT 737-300]

I guess some could concider that a problem. I personally have mixed emotions about it.

[Glennos]

Well I just snapped up the last of the LIN gates, but Im going to sell them, not keep them, is that a problem or is that ok?

Actually I was just about to comment on that. Why should you earn money of those gates when people could lease them for $99000?

I don't know what's the lesser evil, hogging to protect your hub or hogging for financial gain, what do you think?

[galapagapop]

Alright this is going a tad to far. Surely there is no answer quibbiling will bring here, fact is it is not banned by the game, just frowned upon. Don't love it, but I have gate holding ops, not 10 or 15 but just one or two at airports all over the US. Smart players do this sadly, I think some of the problems is when some airlines lack the foresight to plan ahead and grab gates, rather instead being one of the first to have a 753 or something, when they should be working with Q400's. You'll notice the best players are the ones who keep steady growth in class, lots of Q400's and Saab's are still the status quo as everyone moves in on A319's and 737's, the top player will often avoid wasting money on capacity A/C when the game is in a stage of frequency and destinations. Simply plan there is always the month change, terminals, deals, or simply luck. I still don't know why some insist on having to have gates availible on their wim. Plan.

[LOT 737-300]

I've seen a few airlines in the top 15 that do not activly gate hog. Are they just lucky, or are they just way smarter than the hoggers themselves?

[BAW Select]

I only do it to further my airline, which is what the game is about. I only do it at LIN

[galapagapop]

I've seen a few airlines in the top 15 that do not activly gate hog. Are they just lucky, or are they just way smarter than the hoggers themselves?

No their bases are different. LHR? Lots of gates, but hub to lots of mediocre airlines with a few bigs, LGA? Same thing, DFW is a big hub people start at but the competition is just mediocre, no one huge, so no need to hog. I plan, and I'm a big terminal fan, hell when I used to have 600 a/c a few rounds ago I'd open bases with a 5 gate terminal, no wait for gates, and unlimited access for my airline to any of my hubs, with expandability to boot, if I see big returns. Hell when that was happening CMH was making me well over $40 mil DOP easy and got to 90 gates (those were the days)

[kenpalm]

We need to make a differentiation between persons who hoard [I dont like the word hog] gates as a strategy to restrict competition to their advantage, and those who 'sell' gates outright for profit. The latter provide a service particularly for those who are dead to the world at the turn of the month. In fact these traders act as a counter to the hoarders as you can feel confident that at some point in time a trader will make you an offer for a gate you need badly. In effect they allow you to focus on market deveopment while they 'negotiate' gates on your behalf.

[StephenM]

But is gate "Hogging" only getting gates now that will be used in the future with routes of less than 10 frequencies or something? So why not say that airlines with more than 10 gate whether they are filled with routes are hogging them too since they own most of them?

[Glennos]

gates as a strategy to restrict competition to their advantage, and those who 'sell' gates outright for profit. The latter provide a service particularly for those who are dead to the world at the turn of the month. In fact these traders act as a counter to the hoarders as you can feel confident that at some point in time a trader will make you an offer for a gate you need badly. In effect they allow you to focus on market deveopment while they 'negotiate' gates on your behalf.

I beg to differ in this case. If we did not have hoarders as you say it then we would not have gate brokers, at least till much later in the game. I fail to see how you can think that someone who picks up the last 6 gates to sell at 5 million a piece is different than someone who uses then (temporarily) to hold slots for their hub.

[kenpalm]

I beg to differ in this case. If we did not have hoarders as you say it then we would not have gate brokers, at least till much later in the game. I fail to see how you can think that someone who picks up the last 6 gates to sell at 5 million a piece is different than someone who uses then (temporarily) to hold slots for their hub.

The earlier the depletion of gates caused by hoarding, the earlier the brokers will find work. However, my experience is that the true brokers dont create a shortage by hoarding, they enter the market only when a shortage is evident. I agree with you that if a broker picks up gates to create a shortage and then 'sells' these gates he is no different to someone who hoards to restrict competition.

[Africaspotter]

Hi there,

from my experience I can tell you that hoarding gates does not work at all for brokers. Only a few gates sell at a time (about one or maimum two a day) and having five or more gates on the market is normally an indication for little demand. That wouldn't pay anyway.
I normally get gates for people that are asleep at MC or who are looking for them, but can't find any and don't have the time to be online every minute of the day...
If the case would be that someone buys 10 or more gates just to sell them, then that would be against my ethics as well.

Cheers,

Felix