80 replies to this topic

[TNT88]

Funny how some people using "Reputation" as a parameter to judge airlines success. You know how easy it is to get reputation with 2 small prop aircraft?

 

Look at my trophy dear.

[Preston]

But when a scam US airline has prices so low there is no way to make more than -$10,000, I can't do anything. I use FLL, LAS, BWI, MEM, SLC, and with modern spamliners every freaking city in the US is their hub with a 10 gate terminal. There's no way to avoid competition when the airline has every possible route in the country. The only reason they ever are able to keep alive is Spam IFS/IFE, and 20 hours per plane. When you start in R1 at 1985 in the US, there are 5 or 6 spammers just flooding every market, 1000 seats on regional markets is not fun. When you finally find a route without spam service, there's only 1 or 2 737s full of demand, so the 5 routes you can actually make a profit off of can't support your airline.

 

When you abuse your employees, infuriate your passengers with late arrivals, and treat them like dogs, that's when it's unethical to be running that airline.

 

Also, you can't freaking own the US, Flying Cow, that's not how a free market works. Or how it should work. There's got to be room for entrepreneurs, but if you want to go 42 times a day on a 100 pax route with 747s, scam IFS, and $42 fares, just know that you are not playing the game, you are ruining it.

 

 

Also, if you think you're a good player because you can spam a world, it really means you don't have finesse, you can just make a lot of money (konj and Flying Cow). If you ran a realistic airline like the one mentioned above and got a valuation trophy or whatever you want, that would be a different story. But if you just run a spamline, you really don't have a good airline.

 

 

 

 

 

So true

[Preston]

Hey! Why I can't freaking own the US market?

 

Globally, Google is owning search over internet, Facebook social networks, Microsoft desktop/laptop OS, Android mobile devices OS, Amazon & Alibaba are smoking out online retail, etc. etc. etc..

 

But all these companies have strong competition. Google has Bing and Yahoo!, Facebook has twitter, Microsoft has OSX, android has amazon, Ios and windows phone and amazon has the official sites of the products that they're selling. Also owning the US market would break antitrust laws so...

[Jarkii]

Just a question, How competitive are you TFC, i'm not in the USA so i don't know

[Jarkii]

Has Anyone else hit $1 trillion as a realistic airline? I hit it about 2 weeks ago with Jarkii Airlines in R1, which i don't consider a spamline (keeping my seats equal to demand, 3 star Y-class IFS and a little below average wagers.)

[bAnderson]

Has Anyone else hit $1 trillion as a realistic airline? I hit it about 2 weeks ago with Jarkii Airlines in R1, which i don't consider a spamline (keeping my seats equal to demand, 3 star Y-class IFS and a little below average wagers.)

There are certain attributes to spamlines. Spam IFS is once, which you say you don't have. Seat configs matching demand is a little spammy, you probably used Moo's seat config generator, right? Flooding a market is another one. Wages below industry average is okay as long as it's pretty close (Within 5 dollars). You did a lot of things right, but I would say if you are looking for a forum alliance, the seats need changed a bit.

 

As I said, I don't do 20 h, I usually don't use a lot of scam IFS (one of my gold trophies was without profitable IFS at all), so I don't go over some 50% of route's nominal pax number because it makes it unprofitable for my style, so I don't drop prices (except in an intentional precise price war), I never use and actually always argued on this forum, multiple times, against using wide-bodies on domestic routes; so I have loads of regional planes, etc. 

 

And I get to very high valuation anyway. 

 

And most other players get to top 3, if I may say so, easier than me and with less "finesse" with scams that are allowed, but why are you nagging about that? That actually also resembles some real life airlines, but I get there with less of such tactics. But I don't blame people who do that, why would I? I play as I like it. They do whatever they want that the game allows.

 

So you're not a max level spammer. In fact, I think you are a skilled player. I don't know what your HR looks like, but what you said here is making me think you are a good player with finesse.

 

 

You can call it flooding, but that's what big companies do in real life. If you want to call it spamming you have to define it more precisely.

IRW airlines don't get big on that scale but that's AE's flaw, not my tactics. I'm usually just trying to follow what most mainstream multi-hub/focus city airlines like Delta, Lufthansa or Air China do, but bigger because the system is too generous and I have to compete more, not because I don't want it to be smaller and more realistic, but it can be smaller only in a better system that would recalculate demand, make you more occupied with details and less with constant expansion. I always argued for and also proposed solutions to over-expansion.

In the case of real world airlines, they don't exactly flood the market, they have connections to make. Sure, if only 1000 people need to go a day from New York to Los Angeles, and there's more seats that would be considered a flood. But in the real world, versus in-game, the airline simply cannot go from anywhere to anywhere at any time. These flights have schedules, so the more aircraft with maybe 70% of the seats full going from New York bringing passengers to Los Angeles to take a flight from there the better. The passengers always catch their flights, and the airline makes money. Here, there is no scheduling and no connecting, so all pax are point to point. So they are spamming/flooding.

[Red Air Group]

I'd say the developers do something about the demand or how the passenger system work. I can literally dominate a route despite having a competition with the world's top airline. For example, JFK - ATL are being dominated by the top airline until I set a route there and make the prices $80 cheaper. Lets not ban them, lets just make their lives harder. Anyway, there should be a world specialized for spam airlines. That should segregate the serious players and troll players.

[konj1]

So you're not a max level spammer. In fact, I think you are a skilled player. I don't know what your HR looks like, but what you said here is making me think you are a good player with finesse.

 

 

In the case of real world airlines, they don't exactly flood the market, they have connections to make. Sure, if only 1000 people need to go a day from New York to Los Angeles, and there's more seats that would be considered a flood. But in the real world, versus in-game, the airline simply cannot go from anywhere to anywhere at any time. These flights have schedules, so the more aircraft with maybe 70% of the seats full going from New York bringing passengers to Los Angeles to take a flight from there the better. The passengers always catch their flights, and the airline makes money. Here, there is no scheduling and no connecting, so all pax are point to point. So they are spamming/flooding.

You put my first quote as your text...

Anyway.

My HR - workers always payed above average to get average 85-90% happiness and sometimes even employing reserves above default levels, with high value airlines. When I play so-called realistic, they are 100% happy and above that, of course, because if I'm not after valuation I make much too much money not to spend it.

 

Second point, are your airlines are better because you can schedule your flights?  Come on, we all know it's not about players.

I'd gladly do it if someone changed the system.

 

When it comes to pax numbers, also not my fault, I'd be happy to see a big crackdown on that field. I said a few times, as many others did, the system needs a major rethink with PTP and hubs, some things must reduce some others because now it's ridiculous.

I even proposed, I don't think anyone else did, before a finer hub system of AE4 - just go straight to cutting off all connecting pax from the basic airport data, because in AE you make your own hubs - and without Delta such a huge number in ATL is overblown, as is DXB without Emirates etc. I think it makes perfect sense but I had little response on that idea.

 

 

I'd say the developers do something about the demand or how the passenger system work. I can literally dominate a route despite having a competition with the world's top airline. For example, JFK - ATL are being dominated by the top airline until I set a route there and make the prices $80 cheaper. Lets not ban them, lets just make their lives harder. Anyway, there should be a world specialized for spam airlines. That should segregate the serious players and troll players.

Hm, and what do you do with serious trolls?   

 

[bAnderson]

Second point, your airlines are better because you can schedule your flights?

I'd gladly do it if someone changed the system.

 

When it comes to pax numbers, also not my fault, I'd be happy to see a big crackdown on that field. I said a few times, as many others did, the system needs a major rethink with PTP and hubs.

I even proposed, I don't think anyone else did, before a finer system of AE4 - just go straight to cutting off all connecting pax from the basic airport data, because in AE you make your own hubs - and without Delta such a huge number in ATL is overblown, as is DXB without Emirates etc. I think it makes perfect sense but I had little response on that idea.

Never said that, I said that's how real world airlines work, not-in-game ones. That's just the real industry's reason to flood the route. Hub to hub connections.

 

I think we need to be able to grow airports, but not all at once, it needs to take time, there needs to be limits to expansion.

[Red Air Group]

You put my first quote as your text...

Anyway.

My HR - workers always payed above average to get average 85-90% happiness and sometimes even employing reserves above default levels, with high value airlines. When I play so-called realistic, they are 100% happy and above that, of course, because if I'm not after valuation I make much too much money not to spend it.

 

Second point, are your airlines are better because you can schedule your flights?  Come on, we all know it's not about players.

I'd gladly do it if someone changed the system.

 

When it comes to pax numbers, also not my fault, I'd be happy to see a big crackdown on that field. I said a few times, as many others did, the system needs a major rethink with PTP and hubs, some things must reduce some others because now it's ridiculous.

I even proposed, I don't think anyone else did, before a finer hub system of AE4 - just go straight to cutting off all connecting pax from the basic airport data, because in AE you make your own hubs - and without Delta such a huge number in ATL is overblown, as is DXB without Emirates etc. I think it makes perfect sense but I had little response on that idea.

 

 

Hm, and what do you do with serious trolls?   

 

If only there's such a thing.

[bAnderson]

We all know irl a 18000 aircraft airline isn't feasiable due to law, physical network restrictions (i.e airports, ATC, etc) but its fine in a game.

 

My point stills stands that no one carrier can dominate in AE, and that you are rather stimulating the demand rather than crushing competition. 

[davedave]

 

I use FLL, LAS, BWI, MEM, SLC, [...] There's no way to avoid competition when the airline has every possible route in the country. 

 

[...]

 

Also, you can't freaking own the US, Flying Cow, that's not how a free market works. Or how it should work. 

 

 

 

First of all, no 'realistic' airline will be going anywhere near FLL, LAS, BWI, etc. until they're huge. That's your problem right there. You ought to be flying out of OKC or some such. Then there won't be any spamline competition on any route. Heck, you can probably go all the way up to the ~100k airports and still be fine in that regard.

 

Insisting you should be able to fly JFK-LAX with zero competition is what's massively unrealistic, not the fact that the demand is met by people competing to drive prices down.

 

As for monopoly/antitrust, a contestable monopoly does not violate US anti-trust law unless it's doing something else as well like, e.g., dumping. And you really appear to have an idea of 'free market' that means 'a market that lets me do whatever I want to others, but protects me'. 

[davedave]

Hmmn, I'll just leave this here, from the other thread:

 

 

Spamlines actually make AE more realistic. The starting conditions for AE are a bit unrealistic, because otherwise the game would be nigh-on impossible to play - in the real world, most airlines go bust pretty quickly. Spamlines just soak up the most excessive bit of the excess demand, so that key routes like LHR-JFK actually have some real competition making it hard to make a profit on them.

At the end of the day, if you're looking to play 'realistically' you shouldn't be flying any of the routes spamlines fly so their impact on you will be pretty much zero.

 

 

Are any of you whiners ever going to actually address these points?

[The Flying Cow]

But all these companies have strong competition. Google has Bing and Yahoo!, Facebook has twitter, Microsoft has OSX, android has amazon, Ios and windows phone and amazon has the official sites of the products that they're selling. Also owning the US market would break antitrust laws so...

 

Hahaha... "Strong competition"... Have you ever checked their market shares? Have you realized that their competition is on a worldwide scale? Are you freaking kidding me??? Can you even compare Facebook with Twitter...????? Come ooon))))))))) Let's be a bit more serious please

[The Flying Cow]

Just a question, How competitive are you TFC, i'm not in the USA so i don't know

 

Just check some random middle distance routes in USA (e.g. between 1000 and 3000 miles) to get an idea.

Why someone would fly 2000 miles and pay +$300 when there are tickets available for one third of it, at least

[The Flying Cow]

We all know irl a 18000 aircraft airline isn't feasiable due to law, physical network restrictions (i.e airports, ATC, etc) but its fine in a game.

 

My point stills stands that no one carrier can dominate in AE, and that you are rather stimulating the demand rather than crushing competition. 

 

If you can't imagine how to handle 18k aircrafts in real world doesn't mean someone else would not know how

1) Where is the law telling I can't have 18k aircrafts?

2) Physical network restrictions? I bet everyday there are well more than 18k planes at once worldwide being operated at the same time.

3) At the end of the day, in a competitive market (please refer to microeconomics) no competition is crushed unless they are inneficient, but it is only because of strong competition that the market price at a given demand gets to its optimal value, sharing evenly the monetary excedent between supply (airline company) and demand (passenger flying at a fair price).

 

PS:

[bAnderson]

First of all, no 'realistic' airline will be going anywhere near FLL, LAS, BWI, etc. until they're huge. That's your problem right there. You ought to be flying out of OKC or some such. Then there won't be any spamline competition on any route. Heck, you can probably go all the way up to the ~100k airports and still be fine in that regard.

That's my quote. But Southwest uses all of those airports, and they're realistic. Heck, they're real! OKC never has any gates, and while the demand is OK, there's the fact that if you go on vacation you will not choose Oklahoma as your spot.

 

Hahaha... "Strong competition"... Have you ever checked their market shares? Have you realized that their competition is on a worldwide scale? Are you freaking kidding me??? Can you even compare Facebook with Twitter...????? Come ooon))))))))) Let's be a bit more serious please

Yes, Facebook and Twitter are very comparable, as many facebook users have a twitter and vice versa. 

[bAnderson]

 

Hmmn, I'll just leave this here, from the other thread:

 

 

Spamlines actually make AE more realistic. The starting conditions for AE are a bit unrealistic, because otherwise the game would be nigh-on impossible to play - in the real world, most airlines go bust pretty quickly. Spamlines just soak up the most excessive bit of the excess demand, so that key routes like LHR-JFK actually have some real competition making it hard to make a profit on them.

At the end of the day, if you're looking to play 'realistically' you shouldn't be flying any of the routes spamlines fly so their impact on you will be pretty much zero.

 

 

Are any of you whiners ever going to actually address these points?

 

 

When spamlines don't fly every possible route from any two airports with more than 10,000 demand, that would be a good point. A realistic carrier can use airports that are big, but, just today, I saw Flying Cow has 160 hubs across the US. Excessive.

[The Flying Cow]

160 hubs... really???

[The Flying Cow]

That's my quote. But Southwest uses all of those airports, and they're realistic. Heck, they're real! OKC never has any gates, and while the demand is OK, there's the fact that if you go on vacation you will not choose Oklahoma as your spot.

 

Yes, Facebook and Twitter are very comparable, as many facebook users have a twitter and vice versa. 

 

Sweetheart, not because many Facebook users have a Twitter account means that FB and Twitter are competitors or comparable. They might have similar users and even similar business models, but Google vs Bing would be a much better comparison as their value proposal / solution they provide to a user for a certain need (search) is more similar than the value proposal / need that Facebook and Twitter look to satisfy.

 

Regarding my 160 hubs in US - US has more than 160 airports and I still have room for putting more routes on most of those hubs, you still have airports where I do not have hubs