80 replies to this topic

[konj1]

By the way to all the realistic geniuses who are put down by terrible cheating "spammers", check the "100 h world" topic in the new world suggestions and you'll see who were the greatest supporters for this more restrictive and basically simply put realistic idea. Certainly not the whiny incompetent bitches who barely turn the profit on the impossible 20 h / day.

[konj1]

No, nothing is misread. People read both things you wrote. The first thing you wrote is that some airlines should be banned, because that's how you named the topic. Don't pretend others are dumb now.

 

There shouldn't ever be such a thing. Each style has its place if players are not hacking the system under the same rules. You can make a systemic problem solved only by changing the system, not arguing some people are annoying to you and they should be arbitrarily kicked out.

 

If you want another AE world for "non-spammers", that's called a freakin sandbox free game. And you can have it if you want it now in any world, if you're not jealous and concerned with valuation. 

 

AE system is due to change to be more realistic and I'm waiting for that, until then getting bigger is the only way to have a really competitive game if you want to have some challenge in AE, because it's too easy. And in another restrictive and harder system most good "spamming" players will keep being best players in harder conditions. You better believe it!!!

Almost everyone can now have an easy sandbox game in any world without competing with the biggest guys, if you learn to keep your envy under control and don't mess with them, it's easy to have a (IRL huge) 200 plane fleet anywhere in the world, and even easily get a reputation trophy. In a harder AE you'd have it harder, who knows if that calm style of gaming would ever pass, so I don't know what's the point in bitching?

 

The main problem is that some people can't handle the fact that they're not doing as well as others, and they don't think what they really want, just nagging and whining how some others are "unfair". But a more "fair" and "realistic" world would probably make them survive even harder.

 

If you want it harder and more realistic start with reducing your 19.95/20 working exploitation. Just to begin with.

[davedave]

The main problem is that some people can't handle the fact that they're not doing as well as others, and they don't think what they really want, just nagging and whining how some others are "unfair". But a more "fair" and "realistic" world would probably make them survive even harder.

 

 

The whiners are yet to explain precisely how spamlines affect their 'realistic' airlines. Spamlines fly from major airports. Minor airlines don't, they fly from the much smaller airports. Where's do the two even come into serious contact?

[Preston]

 There should be a world for spam airlines to run in

That is an amazing idea! One world for all the people who want to play realistically and 1 world for those who want to be spammy. It's a win-win.

[Preston]

It's fun to be able to play in a world realistically after it has started..

True!

 

200% Agree)))

...& having some planes idle (like 100 in each family) also helps dissuading anyone from even thinking they can attempt to compete ... and as soon as there's someone attempting to lower prices, in return they get the route flooded with the most efficient planes that can fly that route, the lowest feasible price set and the max feasible amount of seats flying, and by the end of the month the route is either clear or one is transporting +80% of all its daily pax    

Not cool.

[konj1]

 

That is an amazing idea! One world for all the people who want to play realistically and 1 world for those who want to be spammy. It's a win-win. 

And what are the rules of that "realism" with almost all of you allegedly "realistic" players running over 19 h days on most aircraft, a thing that I never did even with my high value companies? You're full of s*** if you're putting things that way, only thing I see is some people who can't handle 10 plane companies bitching about others having 1000. 

 

Cut the crap and make up rules and write them, in the suggestion forum.

 

Whatever the rules, I bet I'll beat you in your new more realistic worlds. Can't wait for it.  Because my companies already had self-imposed more realistic rules and came first, while you were riding your planes at 20 h and robbing your employees and did little with them.

 

 

And again, if your idea of "spam-free" world is only sandbox without real competition, there's one thing you might do - curb your jealousy level, mind your own business and have fun with your company. If it's not about valuation, AE is very, very easy and you'll have no problem running even 200-500 planes, which is huge IRW. Just control your emotions, move from a too competitive route if you don't want to compete, and stop whining.

[konj1]

You are the worst kind of spammer and you need to stop.

No, you need to start learning from him.

 

If you want to go higher then better learn from those who already got there, and develop your own thing if you're ambitious enough.

 

His style is not my style, I wouldn't do many things he does and even annoyed by some stuff, but on his topic, I also have my ideas on people who start messing with me, especially those who are in no position to do so. If I never destroyed someone's routes and that guy drops prices by half and he's much smaller, should I let it slide? If you are not aware of your opponent's strength, you made a mistake you'll pay for. That's not real?

 

 

If you can't understand that power and fear are real things in the corporate world, you'll fail when you start a war you can't win. That's very very realistic, my friend.

Why are you playing a business simulation if you can't handle basic things about competition?

[Jezza.]

Everyone should shut the **** up, since this is another pointless argument that's getting nowhere.

[The Flying Cow]

My thoughts-

 

Flying Cow may be a large airline that spams, but I have found it is stupidly easy to throw realistic scheduling against him and make 100% load factor and a large profit.

 

It boils down to a few things:

• When your service and configs are slightly better, pax flock to your airline
• Flooding routes with 870x weekly widebodies at $4 a ticket= generating more demand rather than swallowing it up.
• Hubs help tremendously.

Proof of a successful airline in the flooded world: http://ae31.airline-...r1&player=2160 

 

Sweetheart, probably we have a different understanding of what at "successful" airline is I might have on 3-4 routes more planes flying than your whole cute airline while still generating nice margins and DOP and knowing that unless you cut down to minimum your flights on my routes you won't fill the planes

[The Flying Cow]

No, you need to start learning from him.

 

If you want to go higher then better learn from those who already got there, and develop your own thing if you're ambitious enough.

 

His style is not my style, I wouldn't do many things he does and even annoyed by some stuff, but on his topic, I also have my ideas on people who start messing with me, especially those who are in no position to do so. If I never destroyed someone's routes and that guy drops prices by half and he's much smaller, should I let it slide? If you are not aware of your opponent's strength, you made a mistake you'll pay for. That's not real?

 

 

If you can't understand that power and fear are real things in the corporate world, you'll fail when you start a war you can't win. That's very very realistic, my friend.

Why are you playing a business simulation if you can't handle basic things about competition?

 

Thank you My style is just an equation that mimics AE supply & demand where for an X price there's Y demand, so depending on the mood, sometimes I right away just drop the optimal amount of seats at the right price that economically has little or no margin for improvement, or sometimes I first set a Z price to invite competitors to join the price war (fools) before putting the optimal price and seats few days later forcing them to reschedule   this game, as any other business simulator, can be solved with a proper maths exercise

[The Flying Cow]

True!

 

You are the worst kind of spammer and you need to stop.

 

  Why?

[bAnderson]

Most airlines here that most (whiny) players showed off as "realistic" had 19,92 h daily plane usage, $7 worker pay and had the most dense 3-class cabin with maximum prices, big planes 1/week on small crappy airports. So they were crap airlines not worth mentioning. But they were self-satisfied because they thought they resembled some small real airline that actually has only 1/2 of their routes (because they don't over-use planes).

 

But they declared my big airlines, with 15 h / in 24 day/m usage, salaries well above average, all pax200+ planes had less-than-max cabins, using RJs and props where needed to have good weekly frequency, as "spam".

Because I know what I'm doing, worked on making AE the greatest challenge this system can offer, and I had over 2000 or 5000 planes.

 

People who have realistic airlines (I had a few) usually don't whine, and they have enough fun with their fleet because they're not aiming for max valuation. AE is big enough for such airlines to exist without too much interference.

I helped run (Did most of the work myself, but under shared control) a realistic airline that managed to get #1 rep. I kept to 10-12 hours on the fleet, and the only reason I did three class on short haul flights (2 F in the E-170 and RJ-85) is because I was mostly going from Morocco to Europe. I only really did as many seats as real life airlines did, and less on some. My Do228NGs had 18 of 19 seats, my E170s and E190s had 70 and 90 seats respectively. My Short haul IFS was 3 stars and all of my aircraft had at least free Wifi and Phone coverage starting in 2008. On some routes I was able to get 73% reputation, and these are 500-1000 mile flights. I did not put a four engine widebody through any airport throughout the game, and even replaced some of my 767-300ER/777-200 aircraft with 787s before the world ended. I never used spam IFS, and the only time the airline had more than the above daily hours was when I wasn't in control. Out of 115 or so airlines in the world, we were 54th overall. We phased out aircraft from 15-20 years of age and bought all aircraft at 10 years. Our employees not only enjoyed much higher wages than the rest of the airline industry's average, but also enjoyed a 30% profit sharing with the airline and about yearly bonuses of 5000-10000 dollars. It is possible to run a realistic airline sometimes.

 

However..

 

My airline is a low cost airline in the US based out of Memphis. It pretty much runs like Southwest with a bit more hub-and-spoke, but the airline itself is a domestic (not including Canada/Mexico) carrier. The largest aircraft is the 757-300. I like to keep around 40-50 hours for the fleet. My IFS is profitable, but as a US-based LCC, it mostly is just snacks and drinks for purchase, as in real life. I like having an AOD system in every seat, a good quality system. Most aircraft are B/E, but select 737-800s are F/E, just because. My pricing policy is, always will be, and has always been, for this airline, double fares, a business seat is twice the economy seat. Just a quirk that makes it easier for me to price low. But when a scam US airline has prices so low there is no way to make more than -$10,000, I can't do anything. I use FLL, LAS, BWI, MEM, SLC, and with modern spamliners every freaking city in the US is their hub with a 10 gate terminal. There's no way to avoid competition when the airline has every possible route in the country. The only reason they ever are able to keep alive is Spam IFS/IFE, and 20 hours per plane. When you start in R1 at 1985 in the US, there are 5 or 6 spammers just flooding every market, 1000 seats on regional markets is not fun. When you finally find a route without spam service, there's only 1 or 2 737s full of demand, so the 5 routes you can actually make a profit off of can't support your airline.

 

I'm all for Capitalism but when you abuse your employees, infuriate your passengers with late arrivals, and treat them like dogs, that's when it's unethical to be running that airline.

 

Also, you can't freaking own the US, Flying Cow, that's not how a free market works. Or how it should work. There's got to be room for entrepreneurs, but if you want to go 42 times a day on a 100 pax route with 747s, scam IFS, and $42 fares, just know that you are not playing the game, you are ruining it.

 

 

Also, if you think you're a good player because you can spam a world, it really means you don't have finesse, you can just make a lot of money (konj and Flying Cow). If you ran a realistic airline like the one mentioned above and got a valuation trophy or whatever you want, that would be a different story. But if you just run a spamline, you really don't have a good airline. Just a cash cow.

[Preston]

Why? This is an interesting topic.

[Preston]

If I never destroyed someone's routes and that guy drops prices by half and he's much smaller, should I let it slide? If you are not aware of your opponent's strength, you made a mistake you'll pay for. That's not real?

 

 

If you can't understand that power and fear are real things in the corporate world, you'll fail when you start a war you can't win. That's very very realistic, my friend.

Why are you playing a business simulation if you can't handle basic things about competition?

While I agree that that post was a bit excessive what does power and fear have to do with anything? All I said is that spammers are annoying and that AE would be better Spam free.

[Preston]

Apparently People Still want to discuss this so


Have fun

Thanks!

[The Flying Cow]

(...)

 

Also, you can't freaking own the US, Flying Cow, that's not how a free market works. Or how it should work. There's got to be room for entrepreneurs, but if you want to go 42 times a day on a 100 pax route with 747s, scam IFS, and $42 fares, just know that you are not playing the game, you are ruining it.

 

 

Also, if you think you're a good player because you can spam a world, it really means you don't have finesse, you can just make a lot of money (konj and Flying Cow). If you ran a realistic airline like the one mentioned above and got a valuation trophy or whatever you want, that would be a different story. But if you just run a spamline, you really don't have a good airline. Just a cash cow.

 

Hey! Why I can't freaking own the US market?

 

Globally, Google is owning search over internet, Facebook social networks, Microsoft desktop/laptop OS, Android mobile devices OS, Amazon & Alibaba are smoking out online retail, etc. etc. etc...

What's wrong with me going for, at least, an 80% market share in my home market? (not even globally, but local market!). Beyond AE are you also living in a fantasy world?...

Business wise as long as 1) Legal requirements are fulfilled (I'm not braking any game rule) 2) The shareholders (me) are happy, why should I allow market inefficiencies?

 

I would kindly invite whiners to check at least Wikipedia and read about how free markets work and then build a better elaborated discourse

[konj1]

I helped run (Did most of the work myself, but under shared control) a realistic airline that managed to get #1 rep. I kept to 10-12 hours on the fleet, and the only reason I did three class on short haul flights (2 F in the E-170 and RJ-85) is because I was mostly going from Morocco to Europe. I only really did as many seats as real life airlines did, and less on some. My Do228NGs had 18 of 19 seats, my E170s and E190s had 70 and 90 seats respectively. My Short haul IFS was 3 stars and all of my aircraft had at least free Wifi and Phone coverage starting in 2008. On some routes I was able to get 73% reputation, and these are 500-1000 mile flights. I did not put a four engine widebody through any airport throughout the game, and even replaced some of my 767-300ER/777-200 aircraft with 787s before the world ended. I never used spam IFS, and the only time the airline had more than the above daily hours was when I wasn't in control. Out of 115 or so airlines in the world, we were 54th overall. We phased out aircraft from 15-20 years of age and bought all aircraft at 10 years. Our employees not only enjoyed much higher wages than the rest of the airline industry's average, but also enjoyed a 30% profit sharing with the airline and about yearly bonuses of 5000-10000 dollars. It is possible to run a realistic airline sometimes.

 

However..

 

My airline is a low cost airline in the US based out of Memphis. It pretty much runs like Southwest with a bit more hub-and-spoke, but the airline itself is a domestic (not including Canada/Mexico) carrier. The largest aircraft is the 757-300. I like to keep around 40-50 hours for the fleet. My IFS is profitable, but as a US-based LCC, it mostly is just snacks and drinks for purchase, as in real life. I like having an AOD system in every seat, a good quality system. Most aircraft are B/E, but select 737-800s are F/E, just because. My pricing policy is, always will be, and has always been, for this airline, double fares, a business seat is twice the economy seat. Just a quirk that makes it easier for me to price low. But when a scam US airline has prices so low there is no way to make more than -$10,000, I can't do anything. I use FLL, LAS, BWI, MEM, SLC, and with modern spamliners every freaking city in the US is their hub with a 10 gate terminal. There's no way to avoid competition when the airline has every possible route in the country. The only reason they ever are able to keep alive is Spam IFS/IFE, and 20 hours per plane. When you start in R1 at 1985 in the US, there are 5 or 6 spammers just flooding every market, 1000 seats on regional markets is not fun. When you finally find a route without spam service, there's only 1 or 2 737s full of demand, so the 5 routes you can actually make a profit off of can't support your airline.

 

I'm all for Capitalism but when you abuse your employees, infuriate your passengers with late arrivals, and treat them like dogs, that's when it's unethical to be running that airline.

 

Also, you can't freaking own the US, Flying Cow, that's not how a free market works. Or how it should work. There's got to be room for entrepreneurs, but if you want to go 42 times a day on a 100 pax route with 747s, scam IFS, and $42 fares, just know that you are not playing the game, you are ruining it.

 

 

Also, if you think you're a good player because you can spam a world, it really means you don't have finesse, you can just make a lot of money (konj and Flying Cow). If you ran a realistic airline like the one mentioned above and got a valuation trophy or whatever you want, that would be a different story. But if you just run a spamline, you really don't have a good airline. Just a cash cow.

This is where you mix different players who get to high valuation and call them all "spammers", sorry to say but it sounds just offensive and whiny. I use very different tactics from the Cow (and I don't blame him for doing whatever he does even if I sometimes clashed with similar tactics).

 

As I said, I don't do 20 h, I usually don't use a lot of scam IFS (one of my gold trophies was without profitable IFS at all), so I don't go over some 50% of route's nominal pax number because it makes it unprofitable for my style, so I don't drop prices (except in an intentional precise price war), I never use and actually always argued on this forum, multiple times, against using wide-bodies on domestic routes; so I have loads of regional planes, etc. 

 

And I get to very high valuation anyway. 

 

You can call it flooding, but that's what big companies do in real life. If you want to call it spamming you have to define it more precisely.

IRW airlines don't get big on that scale but that's AE's flaw, not my tactics. I'm usually just trying to follow what most mainstream multi-hub/focus city airlines like Delta, Lufthansa or Air China do, but bigger because the system is too generous and I have to compete more, not because I don't want it to be smaller and more realistic, but it can be smaller only in a better system that would recalculate demand, make you more occupied with details and less with constant expansion. I always argued for and also proposed solutions to over-expansion.

 

And most other players get to top 3, if I may say so, easier than me and with less "finesse" with scams that are allowed, but why are you nagging about that? That actually also resembles some real life airlines, but I get there with less of such tactics. But I don't blame people who do that, why would I? I play as I like it. They do whatever they want that the game allows.

 

So you can nag all you want, but you have to change the game, not hate the player.

 

And you can't put all the successful players in one basket, just to be clear once again. I just hated when people talked all the fantasy "spamming" and "cheating" lines and preached sermons about my nasty airlines, just because they were big, they so often had totally wrong and unfair ideas about what I was doing.