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Would yoou immigrate to the US, England (not Wales, NI, or Scot.), Netherlands, or Germany knowing you cost 7,000 a year for 3 years!!!

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#41
Randallator

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Sorry CT but what your basing this all on is utter nonsense. Your saying that immigrants cost the country money, what your doing here is just putting all immigrants under one false idea. There are many different types of immigrants, eg the economic migrant who comes to a country for work.

I agree with this as it is exactly what my dad did and is legally allowed do as he is a UK citizen moving within the EU and as stated above by ChiJohn pays all taxes required


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#42
TheOmnipotentAmerican

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Wow, dude, work on your typing. Your argument is flawed. Immigrants that are legal PAY TAXES. Therefore, they are contributing what is required by the government of any american, so they have the rights to the same benefits.



#43
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 illegal aliens

define alien because i though they were imaginary beings believed to come from space so are you telling us that you believe they are real and living in the US?


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#44
ChiJohnAok

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Fox, thank you for that well written response that defines "illegal alien".

The term has been commonly used (and not limited to little green beings from Mars).

Genesis even did a song about it ("Illegal alien").

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#45
ChiJohnAok

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Wow, dude, work on your typing. Your argument is flawed. Immigrants that are legal PAY TAXES. Therefore, they are contributing what is required by the government of any american, so they have the rights to the same benefits.


Correct, legal immigrants do pay taxes.

But, (in the United States) just being a taxpayer does not necessarily entitle one to all rights and benefits of a citizen.

An example of that is the right to vote. Citizens have that right; legal immigrant taxpayers do not.

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#46
TheOmnipotentAmerican

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Correct, legal immigrants do pay taxes.

But, (in the United States) just being a taxpayer does not necessarily entitle one to all rights and benefits of a citizen.

An example of that is the right to vote. Citizens have that right; legal immigrant taxpayers do not.

 

True, but I believe he was basing his figure on programs from which immigrants can benefit, sort of made his point invalid all on his own.



#47
ChiJohnAok

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According to the Heritage report, non-immigrant households receive federal, state, and local benefits such as education, welfare, and healthcare valued at about $310 more than taxes paid. In addition, legal immigrant families obtain about $4,344 more than taxes paid.

Heritage states that the average illegal immigrant family currently pays $10,334 in taxes, but receives $24,721 in benefits. Once amnestied, however, newly legalized households would be eligible for even more government benefits, and the cost to taxpayers would increase. The report indicates that, after an “interim period,” benefits to illegal immigrants would increase to an average of $43,900 per household, while tax payments would remain at about $16,000, leading to an average deficit of about $28,000 per family.

Looking at the lifetime cost of amnesty, Heritage finds:

Put another way, if amnesty were enacted, the average adult unlawful immigrant would subsequently receive $898,000 in government benefits over the course of a lifetime and pay $306,000 in taxes over the same period. The average lifetime fiscal deficit (benefit received minus taxes paid) would be around $592,000 for each adult amnesty recipient.

 

http://www.breitbart...stied-Household

Someone is going to have to make up those additional costs.

 


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#48
Stevphfeniey

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We should just abolish government and ban taxes. Problem solved.

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#49
ChiJohnAok

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We should just abolish government and ban taxes. Problem solved.


Some amount of government, and taxation, is necessary for society to continue.
However, the level that government has managed to tentacle itself into things, has become excessive, and should be reduced.

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#50
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Nonsense, if it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing. 


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#51
ChiJohnAok

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Double post


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#52
ChiJohnAok

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Nonsense, if it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing. 

Oh I can think of a few things that are worth doing but overdoing them can cause issues.

 

A little alcohol can be soothing.

 

Too much alcohol can lead to this:

 

 

 

;)


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#53
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Pointing fingers is easy, first, i am not american, but i lived in NYC for many years, studied and paid for the Uni, so I was legal. I am a journalist and worked, also legally, for the news.
The rotten U.S. Economy needs the illegals, to keep costs in certain areas low and lets face it, those guys work the jobs, no american wants to. Yeah, they don't pay taxes, but what they earn, they put it back into the economy, paying rent, food, buying the low quality american cars and so and so on.
Also, don' t forget that the average nanny or gardener is hired by many tax paying american citizens, who appriciate the cheap, illegal labour very much. Society is the root of the problem, not politics and government. And consider for one moment the destructive impact on the economy, if the illegals are forced out, unless you can convince the big u.s. Corporations to re-install the millions of jobs, which have been outsourced and caused parts of the poverty problem. You can hardly blame politics or illegals or 1.000 $ more or less in your pocket for the crappy situation the country is in, but it is most easy to blame the weakest part of the chain.
You guys don't exactly are the cherry on top of the pie anymore. I don't mean this as an offense, is just just how the truth looks like and it is time to face it.

I actually hopped south of the border, living in Mexico City for a bunch of years now and the economic situation is better then NYC, no kidding. Surely, the countryside here is a complete different story.

#54
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I have to say that the opening post of this is wrong in SO many ways... But...

 

Illegals do contribute a large amount to the US economy. Some, I'm not sure of the percentage because it's hard to accurately get, contribute to taxes as well. The thing is that it's not long 'illegals' that contribute to the failing social system... It's lazy Americans too. The system is there to help those who can't work. Ideally for the disabled, elderly, similar. But the US tax, welfare, and other similar programs are so dysfunctional and 'gerrymandered' that they give those who abuse it more weight over those who need it. Social nets are good. But when you have countless people screaming fire for no reason and jumping into an net made of string... you're going to have some issues.

 

As an American who lives south of the border... I see plenty of social policies from this country that the US seriously need to mimic and areas that are in dire need of reform.



#55
tamotu

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Most people who are willing to enter a country illegally, tend to be physically fit (therfore little to no drain on medical expenses), after all it is hard to ride in the back of a lorry for 12 hours, in hot humid condtions if you are overweight and have a bad heart etc

 

Are motivated, theyve put a lot of effort, and usually quite a lot of money into getting into whatever country they are now an alien in, they are likely to want to put at least an equal amount of effort in to creating a life there

 

Are unlikely to be a drain on government funded organisations, they are there illegally, they go to the government for any help and they get deported

 

Any children born are not a net drain, yes they get educated but that is the childrens debt to repay not the parents, and they will do that by the benefit of being educated and having better job prospects.

 

 

Please tell me why you value the life and economic wellbeing of someone who is born 500 miles away from you (but the same country) over someone born 50 miles away (but in a diffferent country) if for example you live in texas, all poeple should be given a chance in life as long as they are willing to work for it



#56
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Most people who are willing to enter a country illegally, tend to be physically fit (therfore little to no drain on medical expenses), after all it is hard to ride in the back of a lorry for 12 hours, in hot humid condtions if you are overweight and have a bad heart etc

This is far from the case with illegal Mexican immigrants to the US. Here in Mexico, if you're employed you can go to Social Security hospitals for free. In the states, the hospitals do have a problem with the Mexican population (Legal or Illegal) using the hospitals and not a primary care physician. The culture in Mexico is... Sick go to the hospital. This gets reflected back in the US. It creates a strain on the hospital system by having to give people free medical care. It also strains it by increased waiting times for people who just have a cold. It's just a cultural clash really. And since hospitals in the US are a mix of private and public health care... it creates a strain on private industry and government funded. (Remember that in the United States... A hospital CAN NOT refuse to treat someone... Even if they can't pay).



#57
tamotu

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Im not fully understanding of how it works in the US

 

but im assuming a Social Security hospital require for you to have a SS number? which surely you wouldnt have if you were an illegal immigrant

 

Theres no cure for a cold so therefore there should be no medical expense save the 5 miutes of a nurse tlling them to rest, drink plenty and dont come back with a cold again, but we all know it doesnt work that way, and antibiootics get handed out like sweets.

 

Do US hospiatals have an obligation to treat any medical illness/malady regardless of ability to pay, or is it just certain medical condtions (such as a heart attack will always be treated by a knee replacement only if you can pay?)



#58
SirMoo

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Social Security hospitals are in Mexico. I was making a comparison that from cultural Mexicans get use to using these Social Security hospitals/clinics... And then use normal hospitals in the States that are not free like they are back in their homeland.

 

Yes, they must treat or 'see' everyone. And that's normally not a nurse. A doctor has to be one to give you medicine in almost every state (if not every state).



#59
Wilsberg

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Social Security hospitals are in Mexico. I was making a comparison that from cultural Mexicans get use to using these Social Security hospitals/clinics... And then use normal hospitals in the States that are not free like they are back in their homeland.

 

Yes, they must treat or 'see' everyone. And that's normally not a nurse. A doctor has to be one to give you medicine in almost every state (if not every state).

 

This is only partially correct. I live in Mexico and yes, the system of public hospitals exist, but you can only use them for free, if you pay the social security tax when you are employed, if you lose your job f.e., you lose your social security. It is sort of a funky system. But I tell you honestly, free doesnt always mean it is a service which actually helps. If have something serious, I would only go to a private hospital or fly home to germany. I don't even want to be in a morgue of the public hospitals here.



#60
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This is only partially correct. I live in Mexico and yes, the system of public hospitals exist, but you can only use them for free, if you pay the social security tax when you are employed, if you lose your job f.e., you lose your social security. It is sort of a funky system. But I tell you honestly, free doesnt always mean it is a service which actually helps. If have something serious, I would only go to a private hospital or fly home to germany. I don't even want to be in a morgue of the public hospitals here.

Yes, I understand all of that. And while the public system is indeed crap... The mentality of the people can't help but move to the country they move to. "I work, I get free health care." I can't help but feel this is also a minor part of the over burdened US hospital system. Mind you... It's not just the Latino population that abuse it. All groups in America do the same. But to what point do Americans (and non) contributing to the US tax system out weight those living off it. We in the US have a problem with the fact that our social programs, tax system, and health care system is a crazy maze of fake doors, red tape, and constricting passages. We're taking flawed systems and putting bandaids on them claiming that solves the problem...It will be interesting to see if we actually get some sort of reworking done to have a proper tax system and to have proper health care. But this version version that the Democrats and Republicans are 'allowing' is a mockery of any reasonable system.

 

So really... 7k a year for 3 years is hardly a problem when our own systems are flawed beyond belief. That being said... I don't even believe that number is remotely accurate or true.







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