137 replies to this topic

[JuanTrippe]

Look its as I said before.

It's not that your gate hogging (that's bad enough), its that you and KLM are on record on the ATL thread pointing a finger at others and saying how terrible it is that everyone snatched up all the ATL gates.

So here I am watching Paris De Gaul dry up, looking at the flights you guys are running between the two Paris airports and then reading the ATL thread. The entire thread is about a double standard not so much about gate hogging in general.

And here we are page 9 of this thread and you still haven't addressed how you can blame others for something you're doing yourself.

[FlyNCL]

So why do you care?

If you only care about their hypocrisy, you do not need to make 30 posts on it. Just trying to sound important / take the moral high-ground?

[Glennos]

Look its as I said before.

It's not that your gate hogging (that's bad enough), its that you and KLM are on record on the ATL thread pointing a finger at others and saying how terrible it is that everyone snatched up all the ATL gates.

So here I am watching Paris De Gaul dry up, looking at the flights you guys are running between the two Paris airports and then reading the ATL thread. The entire thread is about a double standard not so much about gate hogging in general.

And here we are page 9 of this thread and you still haven't addressed how you can blame others for something you're doing yourself.

When you learn to read and understand english i'll get back to you. Other than that, i really could not give a monkeys what you say and what you do.

[LOT 737-300]

Well lets see, the subject of the ATL thread was that the gates went to -5, which is usually done by cheating the script. Australis did not do this. He is just holding onto gates he won't use reasonably for more than 2 AE months (which to me is unreasonable because it shuts out 80% that want to try playing the game or just makes people leave all togeather).

So for the 100th time explained:
Causing gate numbers to go into negatives= cheating (why Australis got pissy in that thread)
Holding onto gates you won't use for many AE years= not cheating, though viewed as a highly unethical act to do in the game by many.

Trust me, many of these people hate gate hogging themselves and want to see it removed (which they have stated.) But in order to prevent themselves from not getting cheated ( NO NOT THAT VERSION OF CHEATED) out by a hogger, they themselves must do that same action. I have a strange feeling that TW or miller are working to stop hogging in V3, and if so, then good, as it would bring this subject from getting too hot like it has many times in the past.

[JuanTrippe]

Fair enough, and enough said.

[Scalpel4]

Reading this thread all I can think about is this picture:

[Americana]

I find this thread funny though

[WingsOTWorld]

Don't blame ACE for your issues

I have enough hassle trying to get ORD gates as it is.

[drv4truk]

Funny thing about gate hogging is that it only works when people aren't cheating. When gates magically appear on the market 5 at a time throughout the day, you have to wonder who is busy creating multiple airlines just to add gates.

[LOT 737-300]

Funny thing about gate hogging is that it only works when people aren't cheating. When gates magically appear on the market 5 at a time throughout the day, you have to wonder who is busy creating multiple airlines just to add gates.

That I understand. But I also notice that the routes that the gate hoggers operate seem to be making routes so unstable that they're the only ones who really profit because the LF bug they activate.

I'm gonna try to ask this again, hopefully the higher ranked gate hoggers can answer this. If you guys are ranked so high because of your skills, then why not free up some space and build up a terminal? I mean, come on, I'm ranked in the 60s-80s (lots of fluxtuation there) and I was able to afford a terminal rather quickly (within 2 days of waiting). You guys can probebly just wait a whole day and spend the 200 mil for a 30 gate terminal or whatever you guys want. I mean, you guys are at the point where you're ordering at least 4 widebodies at a time and by the looks of things building a terminal would not affect you so badly as you guys can quickly recover from the costs of building it. Only thing I'm noticing that Hogging does is curb your competition (in reality, there would be a unfair competition complaint and it would go through a series of courts) and activating the Load Factor Bug on the routes you are flying at 40-100x.

[watchdog]

they're the only ones who really profit because the LF bug they activate.
.

very factual

I'm gonna try to ask this again, I was able to afford a terminal rather quickly (within 2 days of waiting). You guys can probebly just wait a whole day and spend the 200 mil for a 30 gate terminal or whatever you guys want.

that will not happen

no funds to buy other gates

no funds to place massive orders

no funds to gate hog for other alliance members

no funds to counter-attack any poor airline ranked 80th if they take one route they need to be able to have the gates at ya disposal to squash any threat

want more no funds reply

[LOT 737-300]

very factual


that will not happen

no funds to buy other gates

no funds to place massive orders

no funds to gate hog for other alliance members

no funds to counter-attack any poor airline ranked 80th if they take one route they need to be able to have the gates at ya disposal to squash any threat

want more no funds reply

Oh come on watchdog. Do you seriously think that these guys can't quickly recover from buying a new terminal? These guys must be making DOPs of 12 mil by now! Thats more than enough to recover from this really quickly. Plus, the terminals add up insantly to massive savings in montly gate costs. Here is a graph I quickly made while at the University this morning to show what I mean. It's not the greatest quality since I used MS paint on my laptop to make it and simply did the input of costs by hand, but I think it can give you the idea of what I mean.

Long story short, building nice big terminal = some nice savings (millions if they built a nice big terminal)= more money for massive aircraft orders which can also equal more money to get gates elsewhere. Apparently, Miller had the idea of rewarding airlines that do this and let everyone else be able to play the game. Guess it didn't catch on.

[Timsher]

Also, if one builds a terminal their hub expenses go down by an enormous factor.

[watchdog]

Oh come on watchdog. Do you seriously think that these guys can't quickly recover from buying a new terminal?

u are missing the main factor

90 percent of the players are school children

maths for them is a hard subject

children never plan ahead they spend now and do not look ahead

my reply was in j/k form

not all players have a university degree to work out that 1 + 1 = 2 as most will have to take ya socks off to make sure 1 + 1 is not 11

[galapagapop]

I'm usually a huge proponent for terminals, with last round me having over 35-40 ranging from 5 gates to 100 gates, I've always like the convience and savings of a terminal but I tell ya, it just doesn't make sense right now, for the 150+ mil In got I rather downpayment 7 ERJ 190's or 5 A319's or whatever I will need in due time, Sure I can save money, but savings means nothing if I can't reach revenue increase month over month.

[Timsher]

I've always wondered why there are gate fees after one builds a terminal, perhaps if they were eliminated it would shift the advantage to those who chose to terminal.

[LOT 737-300]

I've always wondered why there are gate fees after one builds a terminal, perhaps if they were eliminated it would shift the advantage to those who chose to terminal.

If you look at the bottom of my graph, you will see a chart that has the number of gates and the amount per month in millions. From my quick studying, I notice this pattern. @ 5 gates, you get a 10% discount per gate, then @ 10 gate, you get 20% discount, then 40% at 20 gates, 60% at 30 gates and past 40 gates to 200 (the max) it is 65% discount. (So if someone builds more than 40 gates at MCO, it would be equations 44800x (with terminal) vs. 128000x (without terminal.))
~EDIT~
Oops, I misread your post Timsher, my bad. I'm with you on the fact that these costs should be eliminated. Guess you have to pay the airport for the land it's on? Not too sure. Maybe someone more familiar with Airport ops can explain if this happens often in the real world.

[drv4truk]

You still have to pay airport fees, whether they are for landing or facility fees or whatever. Completely removing the fees would not be realistic.

[Jaime]

What bugs me about building a Terminal, is that, lets say you have 25 gates at an airport, and you decide you need to expand more out of that airport so you build a Terminal. And your 25 gates go to the market, making it possible for someone to buy them all and build up a base there, so he can screw you. So I guess this is the main reason people prefer to get as many gates as they want from the market, avoiding to build a Terminal.

Maybe something should be done, like if you build a Terminal, only half of the gates you have at that airport would go to the market and the rest vanish. What do you think? Or maybe somebody has a better suggestion.

[LOT 737-300]

I personally don't like this as it still encourages gate hogging. If you know your skills, you'll scare off the competition before they get up there (or really beef up your hubs so you'll still have the higher LF). One suggestion I think that has been suggested is terminals after you rent a certain amount of gates I personally like that, only one issue I notice. After reading that DCA and MDW won't allow terminals, I don't think that would work as gate hogging there would become common at those airports as building a terminal would be impossible.