44 replies to this topic

[origin pacific]

Sometimes you just have to wonder...... :puzzled: It seems like the SYD-MEL route is one of the most over served routes in AE. Why? Because even operating the most efficient aircraft on the route (A319 as compared to B1900s, 328s, ATRs, Q400s, Saabs...) once a day it is no longer possible to make even the tiniest profit. The best I can get out of this route is $-1.840. And still new airlines keep flocking in. Can anybody explain to why? I fail to understand it! And no, I'm not looking for a shoulder to cry on, I am just trying to understand and fail miserably at the attempt....... :puzzled:

[Tump]

Lack of more destinations and thus routes to create in that region + Too many people trying to run an airline in that region. Its just simply overcrowded And by the way, why don't you fly that A319 somewhere else to, after all, it has a lot of range...

[VC-10]

Try flying something smaller. If there are only 50 'spare' passengers, then that is 50/121 or 41% load factor. If you use a SAAB 2000, then it is 50/55, or 90% load factor. If an A319 breaks even at 60% with that price, and a SAAB with 70%, then the SAAB will make more profit because it has a lower capacity.

[drv4truk]

Try flying something smaller. If there are only 50 'spare' passengers, then that is 50/121 or 41% load factor. If you use a SAAB 2000, then it is 50/55, or 90% load factor. If an A319 breaks even at 60% with that price, and a SAAB with 70%, then the SAAB will make more profit because it has a lower capacity.

I'm glad somebody figured it out. Rather then continue to flood the route with capcity and losing money, switch to a smaller aircraft. You may lose a little of the market share, but at least you are turning a profit on the route. Others don't understand this and will try larger aircraft or more frequencies even if it means dropping ticket prices under $50 just to get 15%LF.

[origin pacific]

Yes, I guess a smaller AC would make a small difference, but then again I am by no means the one offering the most seats on the route. Plus, I happen to use the A319 on the route because I have the very hours for this route left on it after flying it SYD-SIN. And yes, I even plan to eventually bring on more capacity in the form of a Saab2000 dedicated to this route as with all my other domestic routes. I mean, I am Australia's biggest airline so a Saab dedicated to this route shouldn't be out of this world, should it? But for now I just find it insane how overcrowded this part of the world has become. I mean look at SYD-AKL where JAL has put a dedicated 737-900! As if there were no more routes in Japan or the rest of Asia!
So why do I fly here? Because this is my region of the world. I knew I would never make it in the top ten, but because I live downunder I think I can as well be downunder's leading airline.

[Russ]

Yes, I guess a smaller AC would make a small difference, but then again I am by no means the one offering the most seats on the route. Plus, I happen to use the A319 on the route because I have the very hours for this route left on it after flying it SYD-SIN. And yes, I even plan to eventually bring on more capacity in the form of a Saab2000 dedicated to this route as with all my other domestic routes. I mean, I am Australia's biggest airline so a Saab dedicated to this route shouldn't be out of this world, should it? But for now I just find it insane how overcrowded this part of the world has become. I mean look at SYD-AKL where JAL has put a dedicated 737-900! As if there were no more routes in Japan or the rest of Asia!
So why do I fly here? Because this is my region of the world. I knew I would never make it in the top ten, but because I live downunder I think I can as well be downunder's leading airline.

The other alternative is to flood the route with capacity; taking the loss until the route is cleared out.

But realize that some people will never take the hint.

[CaptKornDog]

. And still new airlines keep flocking in. Can anybody explain to why? I fail to understand it! And no, I'm not looking for a shoulder to cry on, I am just trying to understand and fail miserably at the attempt....... :puzzled:

Join the club, usually a few short weeks after a reset, everyone starts feeling the pinch

[NZ767]

I mean look at SYD-AKL where JAL has put a dedicated 737-900! As if there were no more routes in Japan or the rest of Asia!
So why do I fly here? Because this is my region of the world. I knew I would never make it in the top ten, but because I live downunder I think I can as well be downunder's leading airline.

Yep, I put my 737-900 on SYD-AKL but it's not a dedicated route. It just beats it sitting around at SYD for eight hours and yes, it does make a profit.
Plus it's my part of the world as well; I live in Auckland but the market is not big enough to be based there.
Air Koru messaged me and queried my intentions as well.

Hell, come on. Is that us Kiwis never get anywhere in the real world? Because as soon as someone introduces some competition for us, we cry foul?
Now. What shall I put on SYD-CHC??

[NZ767]

Oops! My mistake. Been in Sydney for a couple of days so lost track of my routes.
Yes the 737-900 is dedicated to that route but is designed to connect with the 777-300ER from KIX.
Tried SYD-MEL but it was overserved.
No different to Northwest running A320s NRT-HKG in the real world.
Geez I love the free market.

[frankly.de]

Plus it's my part of the world as well; I live in Auckland but the market is not big enough to be based there.
Air Koru messaged me and queried my intentions as well.

Yes, so I did. And I personally think that the market is big enough if you're dedicated to make it work. You're never going to make it to the top 10 that way but I'm quite nicely positioned in the top 300 at least. And what really counts for me is building a Kiwi airline, one that serves this market and grows from here. If you ask me, any monkey can probably create a reasonable airline from some major US destination, but here I've got a real challenge, a small overserved market and yet I manage to outgrow most of them.

Hell, come on. Is that us Kiwis never get anywhere in the real world? Because as soon as someone introduces some competition for us, we cry foul?
Now. What shall I put on SYD-CHC??

I'm not crying foul, although I find it just as weird in real life (Emirates) as in AE that some airline from thousands of miles away can come and throw heaps of capacity on the Tasman. If you insist to fly the Tasman you're welcome to do so. Jus remember there already are quite a few rather dedicated local airlines who are ready to go for broke just to stay in business on what is their only market. And I certainly intend to grow there myself (where else could I possibly go?). Just wait a few AE months to see my next move.

On SYD-CHC: Do as you please, I'll be there with a dedicated E190 or E195 some time in the not too far future...........

[NZ767]

Good one Frankly.de,
After all, that's the name of the game.
Good Luck!!

[hpscot08]

I'm seriously tempted just to join these routes and put all these fares at $1 just so that everyone will shut up

[HADC10]

If you do that, I'll buy every plane I can to crash your routes...protecting alliance members, you know.

[drv4truk]

Ooooh. Big words, but I doubt you can back it up. With only 8 aircraft and what little profits you bring in, I doubt you could hurt him any. You'd hurt yourself more.

[frankly.de]

Good one Frankly.de,
After all, that's the name of the game.
Good Luck!!

I notice you're gone...... From SYD-AKL anyway.... Did I scare you away? That was not my intention. Although I certainly won't complain.........

[frankly.de]

I'm seriously tempted just to join these routes and put all these fares at $1 just so that everyone will shut up

If that is your way of dealing with people vocalizing their concerns, then what the heck, go for it. I'll do the same as I did with all the others before: maybe complain with it, but in the end deal with it and quite frankly, you probably won't harm me half as much as all those little B1900 airlines that just keep flooding into the region...

[Woody]

I'm seriously tempted just to join these routes and put all these fares at $1 just so that everyone will shut up

You mean kinda like you promised $1 fares on all of your ORD routes if I ever invaded CDG?

[NZ767]

No Frankly.de,
I'm still here.
Was just reconfiguring the route from a 739 to a 737.
The 739 is of better use elsewhere.:eureka:

[hpscot08]

Well, that wound up not having to occur because of an interesting development...

[drv4truk]

Something to do with DFW maybe???