709 replies to this topic

[edge]

I have a question regarding the Islander I600 aircraft,

 

There seems to be two door configurations available, namely with and without the after wing door, that enables a maximum capacity of 199? 200? passengers. What is the max passenger count without those doors (or these being deactivated).

 

If I read correctly the FAA rules posted in the opening message, like the A320, the I600 has two sets of type B doors at the front and the back and two type IV sets of overwing exits, thus the max passenger count would be 2*75 + 2*9 = 168 pax? Unless the overawing exits are type III, in which case it would be 2*75 + 2*35 = 220 pax? Yet until recently the A320 was maxed at 180 pax, and the 737, with the same kind of configuration yet with smaller doors on the right side of the fuselage is maxed at 189 pax.

 

What am I missing here?

[Med.]

I have a question regarding the Islander I600 aircraft,

 

There seems to be two door configurations available, namely with and without the after wing door, that enables a maximum capacity of 199? 200? passengers. What is the max passenger count without those doors (or these being deactivated).

 

If I read correctly the FAA rules posted in the opening message, like the A320, the I600 has two sets of type B doors at the front and the back and two type IV sets of overwing exits, thus the max passenger count would be 2*75 + 2*9 = 168 pax? Unless the overawing exits are type III, in which case it would be 2*75 + 2*35 = 220 pax? Yet until recently the A320 was maxed at 180 pax, and the 737, with the same kind of configuration yet with smaller doors on the right side of the fuselage is maxed at 189 pax.

 

What am I missing here?

 

 

Ok... The I600's doors are a bit complicated but there is good reason why they are. Let me explain.

 

Doors 1, 4 and 5 are all Type C certified doors. Doors 1 and 5 are the size of a type B door but they are certified only as Type C because it lacks assist space and the kind of escape slide required to meet Type B requirements. I designed them that way for easier boarding where you don't need to duck your head. Also they can be upgraded to Type B with interior modifications and and installation of a double-row escape slide.

 

Doors 2 and 3 are both Type III exits.

 

So doors are:

Physical dimensions: B + III + III + C + B

 

Certified: C + III + III + C + C

 

The I600 is typically sold to the customer with all the doors activated BUT here's another twist: door 2 (Type III) is counted as an 'excess exit' which brings the exit limit to 200.

 

Another common configuration is where door 4 (Type C) is plugged and door 2's capacity is recounted bringing the exit limit to 180.

 

So in summary:

 

Exit limit option 1: 55 + 35(excess exit) + 35 + 55 + 55 = 200

Exit limit option 2: 55 + 35 + 35 + 55(plugged) + 55 = 180

 

.....................................................................................................

 

The I620 has the same door configuration except door 2 is not an excess limit and its capacity is counted. But the I620 will soon have an option for a Type B door 4 to bring its exit limit to 255.

 

Current I620: C + III + III + C + C (55 + 35 + 35 + 55 + 55 = 235)

Future I620: C + III + III + B + C (55 + 35 + 35 + 75 + 55 = 255)

 

.....................................................................................................

 

But mind you, the final certified passenger capacity does not rest on the prescribed capacity of the doors. Part of the aircraft certification process is that you need to demonstrate that all passengers must be evacuated in 90 seconds or less by opening only half of the doors. So, even if your Type C exit has a 55 passenger capacity prescribed on the FAA FAR, if you cannot evacuate your passengers within that 90-second rule, your aircraft's certified capacity will be less. Similarly, if you can demonstrate that you can evacuate more passengers in 90 seconds, you can appeal to increase your aircraft's maximum capacity. That is why the 737-800 has a maximum capacity of 189 and the A320neo is appealing for 195 despite having a textbook capacity of only 180.

 

BTW, excess exit is different from a plug door. Plug doors are fixed and cannot be opened. Excess exits are still fully-functioning exits except they are not required for the aircraft's maximum capacity. They are just there at the customer's discretion.

[Niskan]

Lemica Aviation is back with a new aircraft development !

The LMD-11 !

The LMD-11 is entering flight testing and will be available for purchase in the near future !

 

Specs in the pic

 

[Med.]

Survey: Should Islander develop a shortened I600?

 

It will be in direct competition with the A319neo, 737 MAX 7, and CS300. It will be slightly smaller than the I500 but can fly 7,500km. Target customers would be full service carriers on long and thin routes, hot & high airports and corporate charters. There will also be an ICJ business jet version.

 

SPECIFICATIONS

 

MODEL  Max cap. 1-class  Range

 

I510   150      130      4,400km

I6X    160      140      7,500km

I500   180      150      3,800km

I600   200      180      6,200km

I620   250      200      6,600km

I700   270      230      9,500km

I730   300      260      8,000km

[Tesla]

I'm indifferent, I really have no personal need for such an aircraft, but I certainly see a market for it.

 

Survey: Should Islander develop a shortened I600?

 

It will be in direct competition with the A319neo, 737 MAX 7, and CS300. It will be slightly smaller than the I500 but can fly 7,500km. Target customers would be full service carriers on long and thin routes, hot & high airports and corporate charters. There will also be an ICJ business jet version.

 

SPECIFICATIONS

 

MODEL  Max cap. 1-class  Range

 

I510   150      130      4,400km

I6X    160      140      7,500km

I500   180      150      3,800km

I600   200      180      6,200km

I620   250      200      6,600km

I700   270      230      9,500km

I730   300      260      8,000km

 

As long as fuel economy increases accordingly and payload isn't significantly affected compared to not shortened aircraft. Some payload sacrifice at the top end range would be fine but obviously a miracle would be nice.

 

As you can see, I do not understand basic physics (:-)

[compton]

Survey: Should Islander develop a shortened I600?

 

It will be in direct competition with the A319neo, 737 MAX 7, and CS300. It will be slightly smaller than the I500 but can fly 7,500km. Target customers would be full service carriers on long and thin routes, hot & high airports and corporate charters. There will also be an ICJ business jet version.

 

SPECIFICATIONS

 

MODEL  Max cap. 1-class  Range

 

I510   150      130      4,400km

I6X    160      140      7,500km

I500   180      150      3,800km

I600   200      180      6,200km

I620   250      200      6,600km

I700   270      230      9,500km

I730   300      260      8,000km

As long as the fuel economy decreases along with the size, it seems like a great idea. Just don't let it be too heavy like the A318 or 737-600. 

[Niskan]

In flight testing, the LMD-11 performs better than expected, the aircraft is extremely stable and dampens turbulence very well.

 

Pre-orders are available from now.

 

(PS the template will be uploaded in the next post, however if you want I could paint the launch customers livery so the launch customer doesn't have to do that)

Lemica Aviation is back with a new aircraft development !

The LMD-11 !

The LMD-11 is entering flight testing and will be available for purchase in the near future !

 

Specs in the pic

 

[Niskan]

 

 

Cervera Aviation and Islander Aerospace are teaming up to create and pioneer the next generation of corporate air travel. Bringing luxury, comfort, and speed together to make the fastest business jet ever.

 

Introducing Trinity.

 

 

(Aircraft Specifications unknown at this time)

 

May I just say how awesome that looks ! I designed something like that as well a while back  

[Duncan]

 

 

 

 

(Aircraft Specifications unknown at this time)

 

 

Not sure what to think of this because on one hand I love Islander but on the other hand I've never ordered Cervera...

[Med.]

LIST PRICE: $74,000,000

 

CREW

 Cockpit                2

 Cabin                  3-5

 

PASSENGERS

 Maximum                150

 1-class                132

 2-class                128

 

CARGO

 Volume                 30m3 / 1,070 cu ft

 ULD                    3x LD3-45

 

OVERALL GEOMETRY

 Length                 32.90m / 108.0 ft

 Wingspan               35.6m / 116.8 ft

 Fuselage width         4.04m / 13.2 ft

 Cabin width            3.81m / 12.5 ft

 Wheelbase              12.54m / 41.1 ft

 

WINGS

 Wing area              103.7m2 / 1,117 sq. ft

  (exposed + center box)

 Aspect ratio           12.2

 Wing loading           638.77kg/m2 / 130.7 lb/sq. ft

 Sweep                  12.5deg

 

WEIGHTS

 MTOW                   66,240kg / 146,030 lb

 MZFW                   54,580kg / 120,320 lb

 OEW                    35,740kg / 78,790 lb

 

FUEL

 Volume                 14,390L / 3,800 US gal

 Weight                 11,660kg / 25,710 lb

 

PERFORMANCE

 Range (km)             4,100km / 2,550mi / 2,210nm

 Speed max.             775km/h / 482mph / 418kn

 Speed cruise           750km/h / 466mph / 405kn

 Service ceiling        9,500m / 31,000 ft

 Takeoff run            1,200m / 3,940 ft

 

ENGINES

Europrop TP400-D7B

 Power Output           8,200kW / 11,000shp

 

COMBI VERSION

 Main deck ULD          3x LD7 (88” x 125”)

                        1x LD8 (60” x 96”)

 Main deck volume       39.28m3 (1,386 cu ft)

 

FREIGHTER VERSION

 Main deck ULD          8x LD7 (88” x 125”)

                        1x LD8 (60” x 96”)

 Main deck volume       93.28m3 (3,291 cu ft)

 

 

 

ORDER NOW!

[Duncan]

510 is shorter than 500, but the 620 is longer than the 600.

 

[Med.]

510 is shorter than 500, but the 620 is longer than the 600.

 

'Twas an afterthought

[kawaiisovietball]

Survey: Should Islander develop a shortened I600?
 
It will be in direct competition with the A319neo, 737 MAX 7, and CS300. It will be slightly smaller than the I500 but can fly 7,500km. Target customers would be full service carriers on long and thin routes, hot & high airports and corporate charters. There will also be an ICJ business jet version.
 
SPECIFICATIONS
 
MODEL  Max cap. 1-class  Range
 
I510   150      130      4,400km
I6X    160      140      7,500km
I500   180      150      3,800km
I600   200      180      6,200km
I620   250      200      6,600km
I700   270      230      9,500km
I730   300      260      8,000km

Of course! Greenait is waitng 4 that
P/s: I'm back after amonth

[AJ787-9]

Survey: Should Islander develop a shortened I600?

 

It will be in direct competition with the A319neo, 737 MAX 7, and CS300. It will be slightly smaller than the I500 but can fly 7,500km. Target customers would be full service carriers on long and thin routes, hot & high airports and corporate charters. There will also be an ICJ business jet version.

 

SPECIFICATIONS

 

MODEL  Max cap. 1-class  Range

 

I510   150      130      4,400km

I6X    160      140      7,500km

I500   180      150      3,800km

I600   200      180      6,200km

I620   250      200      6,600km

I700   270      230      9,500km

I730   300      260      8,000km

 

If it's able to operate out of London City Airport on transcontinental routes, Atlantic would be very interested indeed.
 

[Med.]

If it's able to operate out of London City Airport on transcontinental routes, Atlantic would be very interested indeed.
 

 

If you want to operate out of London City, the I500 and I510 will do the job fine on European transcontinental routes. Transatlantic from London City though is a different story. The I500 and I510 doesn't have the range.

[Tesla]

If you want to operate out of London City, the I500 and I510 will do the job fine on European transcontinental routes. Transatlantic from London City though is a different story. The I500 and I510 doesn't have the range.

Can the I6X operate out of London city while flying transatlantic?