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List of Fifth Freedom Flights


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#21
zortan

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Updated Emirates, Scoot, AirAsia and KLM.

Cool. This is a great list


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#22
kingoftheskies

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Cool. This is a great list

 

Thank you. :)


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#23
kingoftheskies

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Updates :

  • Highlighted flights operated by A380, A350 and B787 respectively
  • Updated Air China, Ethiopian, LATAM, Qantas & Uzbekistan

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#24
zortan

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OK - not sure if these count as fifth freedom, as they are domestic in Canada and operated by Air Canada, but they are tag-alongs for long-haul flights operated by the same plane, and you can stay on during the stop in the middle.

  1. Air Canada YVR-YYZ (tag along from the 777-200LR flight from SYD-YVR)
  2. Air Canada YYZ-YUL (Tag along for the A330-300 flight from YUL-GVA)

I'm sort of doubting that these count since they're in the home country, but I'm not sure...


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#25
kingoftheskies

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OK - not sure if these count as fifth freedom, as they are domestic in Canada and operated by Air Canada, but they are tag-alongs for long-haul flights operated by the same plane, and you can stay on during the stop in the middle.

  1. Air Canada YVR-YYZ (tag along from the 777-200LR flight from SYD-YVR)
  2. Air Canada YYZ-YUL (Tag along for the A330-300 flight from YUL-GVA)

I'm sort of doubting that these count since they're in the home country, but I'm not sure...

 

They are not fifth freedom flights because fifth freedom flights are flights between two countries flown by an airline from a third country. Air Canada is an airline from Canada, thus any flights within Canada operated by them are not fifth freedom flights. But I know what you mean as tag-along flights.

 

Moreover, another reason they are not fifth freedom flights is because those flights you listed are between 2 points of the same country (Canada), whereas fifth freedom flights are flights between 2 countries (operated by an airline from a third country).

 

If you need further clarifications, refer to my 2nd post. :)


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#26
zortan

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They are not fifth freedom flights because fifth freedom flights are flights between two countries flown by an airline from a third country. Air Canada is an airline from Canada, thus any flights within Canada operated by them are not fifth freedom flights. But I know what you mean as tag-along flights.

 

Moreover, another reason they are not fifth freedom flights is because those flights you listed are between 2 points of the same country (Canada), whereas fifth freedom flights are flights between 2 countries (operated by an airline from a third country).

 

If you need further clarifications, refer to my 2nd post. :)

OK I see. Thanks then.


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#27
HanTseng

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Very good guide!

 

Does anyone know why Cathay Pacific, Phillippine Airlines, and Scoot all operate fifth freedom flights from Taipei to Japan/Korea? All of them have the abilities for a direct flight, and China Airlines, Eva Air, and other Japanese/Korean airlines already have many flights.


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#28
kingoftheskies

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Very good guide!

 

Does anyone know why Cathay Pacific, Phillippine Airlines, and Scoot all operate fifth freedom flights from Taipei to Japan/Korea? All of them have the abilities for a direct flight, and China Airlines, Eva Air, and other Japanese/Korean airlines already have many flights.

 

The thing for Scoot is because when it first started out they were sceptical about non-stop low-cost demand between SG and Japan, thus operating via Taiwan since they can also take advantage of the fifth freedom rights they have. Secondly, for low-cost passengers, they could also gain more revenue having a stopover since they can charge passengers for using the stopover option (connecting bags/tickets through) and 2 sectors also mean 2 meals, meaning passengers will spend more on in-flight services, hence more revenue. Although landing rights, slots at Taiwan can be an expense for them too.

 

As for the remaining 2 carriers, Taiwan-Japan has a lot of demand, thus nearby carriers like Philippine and Cathay make use of the fifth freedom rights they have and operates flights between the 2 countries, even if they have a non-stop flight to Japan from their own home country. It's not just Taiwan-Japan. Look at Emirates, they operate more than 1 daily flights between DXB and JFK, and yet they still have a fifth freedom flight via Milan.

 

I guess the main thing about these carriers is that they find potential demand between pairs of cities, and if they decide that they could profit greatly from those routes and if there's low or no competition, they'll operate them, although the main restriction about this is whether or not all 3 countries involved are willing to grant fifth-freedom approvals. 


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#29
Anzatax

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Are fifth-freedom flights available in AE?


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#30
kingoftheskies

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Are fifth-freedom flights available in AE?

 

Unfortunately, nope. It's not a feature. (Except in open worlds)


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#31
HanTseng

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The thing for Scoot is because when it first started out they were sceptical about non-stop low-cost demand between SG and Japan, thus operating via Taiwan since they can also take advantage of the fifth freedom rights they have. Secondly, for low-cost passengers, they could also gain more revenue having a stopover since they can charge passengers for using the stopover option (connecting bags/tickets through) and 2 sectors also mean 2 meals, meaning passengers will spend more on in-flight services, hence more revenue. Although landing rights, slots at Taiwan can be an expense for them too.

 

As for the remaining 2 carriers, Taiwan-Japan has a lot of demand, thus nearby carriers like Philippine and Cathay make use of the fifth freedom rights they have and operates flights between the 2 countries, even if they have a non-stop flight to Japan from their own home country. It's not just Taiwan-Japan. Look at Emirates, they operate more than 1 daily flights between DXB and JFK, and yet they still have a fifth freedom flight via Milan.

 

I guess the main thing about these carriers is that they find potential demand between pairs of cities, and if they decide that they could profit greatly from those routes and if there's low or no competition, they'll operate them, although the main restriction about this is whether or not all 3 countries involved are willing to grant fifth-freedom approvals. 

 

Thanks! Never knew about that! 

 

What about Eva Air's European flights that all require a transfer at Bangkok? China Airlines and KLM are able to fly direct flight to many cities (CI used to also transfer at BKK before their 777 and A350), and yet Eva Air can only fly to Paris (And later Vienna). They have this tradition for many years, and even with 777-300ERs, they still transfer? Why is that?


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#32
kingoftheskies

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Thanks! Never knew about that! 

 

What about Eva Air's European flights that all require a transfer at Bangkok? China Airlines and KLM are able to fly direct flight to many cities (CI used to also transfer at BKK before their 777 and A350), and yet Eva Air can only fly to Paris (And later Vienna). They have this tradition for many years, and even with 777-300ERs, they still transfer? Why is that?

 

Typed sth for you :

 

Why do Taiwanese carriers stopover at BKK for European flights?

For Taiwan, it's a special case. Taiwanese carriers have restricted access over China's airspace whereas other carriers do not. If you look at the nonstop flights both Taiwanese carriers offer between Taipei and Europe, you would notice that many, or all of them, do not fly over China. They'll fly north towards Japan before flying over Russia to get to Europe OR fly south towards Southeast Asia and then northeast towards Europe. These routes are significantly longer compared to flying directly over China, which KLM does and EVA/China Airlines do not. Hence, sometimes it is more profitable to stopover at BKK and make use of the fifth freedom rights they potentially have than to operate nonstop. That's why before they receive long-haul aircrafts (such as the Boeing 777-300ER), both carriers operate via BKK to Europe

 

Now, why BKK as a stopover? It's because BKK has relatively high demand to/from Europe, and it's geographically feasible for Taiwanese carriers to stopover at (for the fly-south-towards-SEA route). Not to mention, BKK has low competition too.

 

Why doesn't EVA operate more nonstop flights to Europe?

There is a significant difference between EVA and China Airlines. EVA Air is more focused on North American destinations than China Airlines, thus most of its long-haul fleet has been used for North American flights. China Airlines wins in Europe whereas EVA wins in North America, so even if EVA Air, in the future, has sufficient fleet to operate more nonstop flights to Europe, by that time China Airlines would have already dominated the Taiwan-Europe market.


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#33
🥓 Bacon

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Does the BA flight from JFK-London City count? It stops in Shannon but (I think) it doesn't pick up/drop off pax.



#34
kingoftheskies

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Does the BA flight from JFK-London City count? It stops in Shannon but (I think) it doesn't pick up/drop off pax.


Ya you're right the stop in Shannon is for refuelling and for immigration preclearance for the USA.

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#35
St. Agre

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I should point out that the Air France flight from Los Angeles to Papeete isn't a fifth freedom flight because Papeete is in France.


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#36
kingoftheskies

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I should point out that the Air France flight from Los Angeles to Papeete isn't a fifth freedom flight because Papeete is in France.


I follow by the ICAO location designator code, and France owns both the codes for Metropolitan France and the French Polynesia, hence you're correct and I removed Air Tahiti Nui's flight too.

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#37
kingoftheskies

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Updated Ethiopian Airlines.  ^_^


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#38
Marb1

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Good list! Found it from your signature!



#39
bAnderson

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Kingoftheskies, did you see that Switzerland is giving permission for fifth freedom flights to Mexico from the UAE? Mexico hasn't agreed yet but it's something to watch!

 

http://aeronauticson...ghts-to-mexico/


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#40
kingoftheskies

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Kingoftheskies, did you see that Switzerland is giving permission for fifth freedom flights to Mexico from the UAE? Mexico hasn't agreed yet but it's something to watch!
 
http://aeronauticson...ghts-to-mexico/


Wow thanks for sharing :), though that paragraph on Qantas's Kangaroo Route is a little inaccurate. :P

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