56 replies to this topic

[Stevphfeniey]

I still don't understand the American hangup with providing healthcare to everybody.

 

Literally every other developed (and many developing) nations provide either free or greatly subsidized heathcare to its citizens with the understanding that it's a fundamental human right. Like I appreciate that we have short wait times compared to, say, Canada. But is it worth going into tens of thousands of dollars worth of debt? I mean to get a good understanding as to the state of American healthcare, there is an incredibly popular TV show about a teacher who starts cooking meth to pay for cancer treatment... 

[Adam.Bomb]

its not every fcking thread, only ones started by him.

You mean the entire current affairs forum, the majority of topics l did not start.

[bAnderson]

I still don't understand the American hangup with providing healthcare to everybody.
 
Literally every other developed (and many developing) nations provide either free or greatly subsidized heathcare to its citizens with the understanding that it's a fundamental human right. Like I appreciate that we have short wait times compared to, say, Canada. But is it worth going into tens of thousands of dollars worth of debt? I mean to get a good understanding as to the state of American healthcare, there is an incredibly popular TV show about a teacher who starts cooking meth to pay for cancer treatment...

Health Care is a human right? What if I don't want it? I can be jailed and fined for it? Year after year? No. I think that's a human rights violation.

[eastwind]

Health Care is a human right? What if I don't want it? I can be jailed and fined for it? Year after year? No. I think that's a human rights violation.

 

[Stevphfeniey]

Who the hell doesn't want healthcare?

[Adam.Bomb]

Anderson your argument is flawed buddy. Here i I will help. No one has the right to a service provided by anyone. Skills and expertise are something you should be able to charge whatever you want for, and only the individual have control over.

[Stevphfeniey]

There's a thing known as the common good. Services which all people benefit from: utilities, healthcare, the military, policing. 

 

I never see people call for privatized fire services, or mercenaries defending our country. Why can't healthcare (which by the way is listed as a human right along with food, water and shelter according to the UN Declaration of Human Rights we helped write then signed)? It might also say that people have the right not to be enslaved, and nationalizing the health care system could be construed as putting doctors into slavery.

 

But nobody's forcing you to be a doctor. And as it stands doctors are already required by their Hippocratic Oath to provide medical assistance to those who need it. If we nationalize the healthcare system and you don't like it, fine. We don't need you to be a doctor, we have lots of other doctors and future doctors who will happily take your place. 

[bAnderson]

If being a doctor is basically slavery no one will be a doctor and no one gets Health care. And there is a huge difference between health care and health coverage, aka ACA.

[Boing the Ostrich]

Health Care is a human right? What if I don't want it? I can be jailed and fined for it? Year after year? No. I think that's a human rights violation.

 

Then die of at your own accord No one's making you go to the clinic. If you're willing to bear the pain of a terminal illness that's fine But are you willing to die when theres a second chance at life on offer?

[Stevphfeniey]

Mehhhhhhh.... Not really.

 

No coverage means you have no access to health care. A universal healthcare system simply covers everybody no questions asked. 

 

And again I don't think a doctor is going to deny people treatment just because he doesn't like what the government is doing. Actually most doctors who are members of the American Medical Association are in favor of a universal healthcare system because people will actually go to the doctor instead of not going because it's too expensive, leading to a healthier population. 

[Boing the Ostrich]

If being a doctor is basically slavery no one will be a doctor and no one gets Health care. And there is a huge difference between health care and health coverage, aka ACA.

 

Being a doctor means making some sacrifices to save lives. Health care is the provision of the service, health coverage is making the service affordable. Both have distinct problems! 

[Boing the Ostrich]

Most doctors who are members of the American Medical Association are in favor of a universal healthcare system because people will actually go to the doctor instead of not going because it's too expensive, leading to a healthier population. 

 

This. 

[Stevphfeniey]

Actually I think it's kinda ****ed up how we make people pay out of pocket for healthcare. 

 

When you have a life threatening illness your choices are basically either you die or you pay up and get into extreme amounts of debt. To me, that's borderline extortion. 

[vistaraR1]

There's a thing known as the common good. Services which all people benefit from: utilities, healthcare, the military, policing.

I never see people call for privatized fire services, or mercenaries defending our country. Why can't healthcare (which by the way is listed as a human right along with food, water and shelter according to the UN Declaration of Human Rights we helped write then signed)? It might also say that people have the right not to be enslaved, and nationalizing the health care system could be construed as putting doctors into slavery.

But nobody's forcing you to be a doctor. And as it stands doctors are already required by their Hippocratic Oath to provide medical assistance to those who need it. If we nationalize the healthcare system and you don't like it, fine. We don't need you to be a doctor, we have lots of other doctors and future doctors who will happily take your place.

And what about them who are doing business?

[Stevphfeniey]

Why is peoples' health a business in the first place?

[bAnderson]

Because it costs a lot of money to become a doctor and most doctors don't want to end up on welfare because their debts are so large. It's not like you can go to Walmart and buy a PHD.

[eastwind]

Because it costs a lot of money to become a doctor and most doctors don't want to end up on welfare because their debts are so large. It's not like you can go to Walmart and buy a PHD.

So make college more affordable.

[Airwave]

How are debts from college paid off? If it's anything like the UK's university tuition fees, where you pay a small amount of your income every month if you earn over £21k-22k/yr and then gets defaulted with no extra cost if not fully paid, there's no real right to bitch about it. If it's like a massive lump-sum or massive incremental loan, or anything more unreasonable, then there's a right to bitch about it.

[SirMoo]

How are debts from college paid off? If it's anything like the UK's university tuition fees, where you pay a small amount of your income every month if you earn over £21k-22k/yr and then gets defaulted with no extra cost if not fully paid, there's no real right to bitch about it. If it's like a massive lump-sum or massive incremental loan, or anything more unreasonable, then there's a right to bitch about it.

 

It's not. It's like a generic loan where you have to pay X amount each month. Unlike the UK, there is not actual loan forgiveness after a certain period of time either. The only loan forgiveness in the US is if you become disabled and are unable to work.

 

Otherwise, you pay it off just like a generic loan.

[Stevphfeniey]

Well the thing with US college debt is that while you can default on it (which absolutely wrecks your credit score making things like auto loans, business loans or mortgages that much more unattainable), it can't be renegotiated in bankruptcy, it's not written off when you die and is subsequently passed onto your next of kin, and the amount of college debt in the US is higher than credit card debt with an average load of about $30k. This coupled with the fact that a college degree really doesn't get the salary that it once commanded makes this a concern about a bubble that's developing really rapidly.

 

And I would beg the question if doctors, and medicine, and medical research are really that important to us why would we not be funding it with our tax dollars? My tax dollars go to roads, they go to schools (kind of), they go to the military, they go to police, they go to fire and rescue. Why are we not treating healthcare like a common and public good like we do with so many other essential services? Because right now in this country it's a business, and an incredibly lucrative one at that.