201 replies to this topic

[Starosta]

I don't think US, UK, Russia , China, Singapore, Ukraine or other nations that already have been mentioned are difficult. Competition may make a game even more challenging, whether you face it in the US or in Burkina Faso, but I think the OP was asking about countries that present a challenge per se. I think the most difficult would be small countries with only one airport or several small airstrips with very little demand. Swaziland, Lesotho, Djibouti, Burundi, São Tomé and Principe, Belize and most of the island nations in the Pacific Ocean. It makes it even more difficult if these countries are poorly located, because you end up with a situation in which you have planes that don't have enough range or you have planes that you can't fill due to poor demand.

[Starosta]

I just realized, Belize is not that difficult, it just requires more attention. It is close to other countries with interesting demand.

[bAnderson]

How about Israel. All short range domestic flights are pretty much banned. All you have is Europe, far enough away that certain aircraft are useless.

 

I would agree with places like Chad, but how about DRC? Or Mali? Or Fiji.

[TheGreatOP]

How about Israel. All short range domestic flights are pretty much banned. All you have is Europe, far enough away that certain aircraft are useless.

 

I would agree with places like Chad, but how about DRC? Or Mali? Or Fiji.

Israel is easy with Turkey right next to it, and countries like Bulgaria, Greece and Romania also offer many choices.

DRC has enough demand to sustain flights to Lagos, Johannesburg and Addis Ababa I think, and Fiji has Guam, New Zealand and Australia nearby as well.

[Flyman]

I have to disagree with Ukraine. If you get the right sized planes you can get a pretty high frequency going.

 

Indeed. If you start at Kyiv Boryspil then you have bunch of 'juicy' European routes. Furthermore, Asian long-hauls generate quite decent yield for B767/A330/B787. 

 

But If you are aiming to deploy B747 on the long hauls right away then Ukraine is not a good option.

[Tesla]

All of Ukraine's airports would class as tier 3 or tier 4 airports in the UK and USA. It is downright difficult. The lack of openskies suits hub-and-spoke and means only Ukrainian carriers can compete domestically. 

[Flyman]

I agree that domestic traffic is quite small, but international is not that bad looking. If you operate in Ukraine, the starting airport should be Kyiv Borypil (KBP) as it generates enough of pax to have a steady growth.As an example (to name few routes):

 

• Kyiv Boryspil  (KBP) - London Heatrhow (LHR) - 11 pax (F), 66 pax (C ), 471 (Y) - 1356 miles
• Kyiv Boryspil  (KBP) - Frankfurt (FRA) - 11 pax (F), 67 (C ), 477 (Y) - 984 miles
• Kyiv Boryspil  (KBP) - Moscow Domodedovo (DME) - 9 pax (F), 56 (C ), 399 (Y) - 456 miles
• Kyiv Boryspil  (KBP) - Bucharest - Henri Coanda (OTP) - 7 pax (F), 45 pax (C ), 321 (Y) - 465 miles
• Kyiv Boryspil  (KBP) - Warsaw - Chopin (WAW) - 8 pax (F), 50 (C ), 357 (Y) - 446 miles

 

The yield is enough to have 2-3D (or even more) B738/A320. Long haul routes will generate enough traffic to fill daily B767/B787/A330.

 

Thus, it's not that hard to play there. Moreover, there are not so many players operation there, so the competition is not that high. I used to play there and grew quite a big airline.

 

But of course if you want a fast development with 1000 of pax daily in reach of up to 500 miles, then Ukraine is not for you.

[Viero]

The US, UK, and Australia can be difficult to operate out of due to competition. In R-Alpha, the US has 60 airlines while China, a similar market, has only 9.

 

Macau is a small airport, but can be a pretty nice base due to the market around it.

 

Airlines in Taiwan can't fly to China (aside from HK and Macau), which cut out a large amount of possible routes.

 

Reykjavik and Havana are rather small airports which can be difficult to manage at times. Cuban airlines are barred from flying to the US, cutting out a very large amount of routes there, and Icelandic routes offer only so much demand.

 

Greendlandic airlines are near impossible to keep afloat for more than a couple of years. If the fuel costs and low demand don't get you, the gate costs will.

 

South Africa boasts a couple of large airports compared to the rest of Africa, but due to its location virtually all flights from the airport have to be long haul.

[Tesla]

I agree that domestic traffic is quite small, but international is not that bad looking. If you operate in Ukraine, the starting airport should be Kyiv Borypil (KBP) as it generates enough of pax to have a steady growth.As an example (to name few routes):

 

• Kyiv Boryspil  (KBP) - London Heatrhow (LHR) - 11 pax (F), 66 pax (C ), 471 (Y) - 1356 miles
• Kyiv Boryspil  (KBP) - Frankfurt (FRA) - 11 pax (F), 67 (C ), 477 (Y) - 984 miles
• Kyiv Boryspil  (KBP) - Moscow Domodedovo (DME) - 9 pax (F), 56 (C ), 399 (Y) - 456 miles
• Kyiv Boryspil  (KBP) - Bucharest - Henri Coanda (OTP) - 7 pax (F), 45 pax (C ), 321 (Y) - 465 miles
• Kyiv Boryspil  (KBP) - Warsaw - Chopin (WAW) - 8 pax (F), 50 (C ), 357 (Y) - 446 miles

 

The yield is enough to have 2-3D (or even more) B738/A320. Long haul routes will generate enough traffic to fill daily B767/B787/A330.

 

Thus, it's not that hard to play there. Moreover, there are not so many players operation there, so the competition is not that high. I used to play there and grew quite a big airline.

 

But of course if you want a fast development with 1000 of pax daily in reach of up to 500 miles, then Ukraine is not for you.

Only 8 airports in Ukraine are feasible to operate from, and most of them require a DHC-6 or smaller. Regional is a tough industry in Ukraine with just 8 possible destinations.

[Hake.]

Ukraine is so damn easy. Why don't you try operating from some other countries on the lost like Swaziland and then get back to us?

[TNT88]

Antarctica would be quite hard.

[Max Devo]

North Korea's awful as well:

 

Domestic flights are nonexistent (they're possible but the routes have literally no demand).

 

The U.S. and South Korea is off-limits.

 

Pyongyang Sunan is the only airport that could be considered reasonable to fly out of, and that's not saying much since the demand anywhere is embarrassingly low. Even Beijing and Tokyo Haneda routes don't break the triple digits for Y demand. Flying to Europe will require a long-range aircraft with very low pax capacity. I once flew CDG to FNJ with a low-capacity-cofigured 737-700 ER.

 

So, basically, if you're hoping to fly something like Air Koryo, Have fun with the hub-and-spokes from Pyongyang to China and Japan.

[TheGreatOP]

North Korea's awful as well:

 

Domestic flights are nonexistent (they're possible but the routes have literally no demand).

 

The U.S. and South Korea is off-limits.

 

Pyongyang Sunan is the only airport that could be considered reasonable to fly out of, and that's not saying much since the demand anywhere is embarrassingly low. Even Beijing and Tokyo Haneda routes don't break the triple digits for Y demand. Flying to Europe will require a long-range aircraft with very low pax capacity. I once flew CDG to FNJ with a low-capacity-cofigured 737-700 ER.

 

So, basically, if you're hoping to fly something like Air Koryo, Have fun with the hub-and-spokes from Pyongyang to China and Japan.

You're basically stuck on a regional airline in North Korea, though as long as you have a few ATRs and the CRJ-1000EL + Q400NextGen you'll be fine. (i.e. the world needs to start 1985 or later)

[Flyman]

Only 8 airports in Ukraine are feasible to operate from, and most of them require a DHC-6 or smaller. Regional is a tough industry in Ukraine with just 8 possible destinations.

 

Why to go for domestic flights if you can have a good yield European routes?

[Starosta]

Why to go for domestic flights if you can have a good yield European routes?

 

I think it is a good idea to start with domestic flights in countries where it is possible. You can build up from there as there is a big chance that you won't be facing competition in that particular market.

[tchung]

Hong Kong or Singapore because only 1 good airport in both

[Hake.]

Hong Kong or Singapore because only 1 good airport in both

Went on to R Alpha. Market seems easy enough.
http://ae31.airline-...ae3ra&player=64
http://ae31.airline-...3ra&player=1090
This is the type of market we're talking about - http://ae31.airline-...3ra&player=1286

[Flyman]

I think it is a good idea to start with domestic flights in countries where it is possible. You can build up from there as there is a big chance that you won't be facing competition in that particular market.

 

It depends in which country your plaining. It's a good strategy for Japan (for example), but it won't work for Ukraine where straight away you should go for internation routes.

[TheGreatOP]

Went on to R Alpha. Market seems easy enough.
http://ae31.airline-...ae3ra&player=64
http://ae31.airline-...3ra&player=1090
This is the type of market we're talking about - http://ae31.airline-...3ra&player=1286

HKG and SIN are best for S1

[tchung]

true