26 replies to this topic

[flyhegs]

If u look at the Aircraft Delevieris then you will find many , many Airlines ordering Airliners (mostly Airbuses and embraers but others 2) in bulk orders , using the delevery slots and then trying to sell them high above market price in the used market . It is happening so much that it is getting into a redicilos way to earn extra money fast . I think that this should be stopped . It isn't a bug neither is it real cheating but it defenetly isn't "realistic", as real Airlines don't do this. (for the guys who justlove the realism of an overcrowded world). Neither is it fair for the the Airlines with less cash as the delivery slots get used and this is just capitalism over the Aircraft market . I think it should be changed . A way is to not allow selling Airliners that are younger then 5 years for more then 110% of it's value . Another way is to reduce the saving that are made by purchasing bulk airliners by , for example, making the savements stop "early" (instead of by 51 aircraft by 15 or so ) .

Vote yes or no

[ziliu]

Originally posted by flyhegs
[...] as the delivery slots get used [...]

The delivery system works in such a way, that no airline can receive more than 2 aircraft each month. Furthermore, for each 10 aircraft on order the amount of delivered aircraft increases by 1 per month.

Suppose now I order 50 airbuses, and it will take 5 months for those orders to reach the front. During each and every one of these 5 months, i won't get any aircraft delivered since I'm in the back of the queue. But, since I contributed with 50 aircraft to the queue length, during each and every one of these 5 months 5 more aircraft will be delivered than if I hadn't placed the aircraft. That's 25 extra aircraft. In the sixth month, I will get 2 aircraft, but will still contribute with 5 extra delievered aircraft, making a grand total of net increase in delivery for other airlines 28 aircraft during these 6 months. So actually, the orders place behind my 50 aircraft will actually get delievered 1 month, if not 2, earlier than if I hadn't placed the aircraft.

You could also argue that as my aircraft get delievered, the "boost" gets smaller and smaller and thus do not compensate for the 2 used delivery slots. Let us do some maths:

During the 5 initial months, I will contribute with 5 net extra delivery slots per month = 25 net extra slots.
During the 6th month, I will contribute with 3 net extra slots.
During the 7th-11th month, I will have 48, 46, 44, 42 and 40 aircraft on order, respectively, contributing with a net of 4-2 = 2 extra delivery slots per month = 10 extra slots.
During the 12th-16th month, I will have 38, 36, 34, 32 and 30 aircraft on order, contributing with a net total of (3 - 2) * 5 = 5 extra slots.
During the 17th to 21th month, I will have 28, 26, 24, 22 and 20 on order, and my "consumption" of slots will be as great as my "production", meaning my net contribution will be 0.
During the 22th to 26th month, I will have 18, 16 etc aircraft on order, each month I will consume 1 slots more than i produce, which means my net contribution will be -5 slots.
During the 27th to 31th month, I will consume two more slots than I produce -> net contribution = -10 slots.

Summing the net production of delivery slots up over 31 months, we get a contribution of 28 extra slots. So even after my delivery is complete, we would still be 28 aircraft ahead of what could have been delivered without my order.

To sum it up, yes I would be using delivery slots, but I will create more delivery slots than I use.

[Edited on 8/21/2005 by ziliu]

[Edited on 8/21/2005 by ziliu]

[hpscot08]

Very well put Bravo

[ziliu]

Oh and I think that if something is to be forbidden it is those annoying small one-aircraft orders that don't boost delivery enough to compensate for themselves! ;)

[Edited on 8/21/2005 by ziliu]

[galapagapop]

Thats why it takes less than a month to get Q400's as that line looks long but its all for 6 customers, leaving plently of room for other. A is the same what to I get deliveries when it says 19-20 month wait.

[Sunshine Airways CEO]

I don't see where you came up with the idea of this being cheating. Would leasing companies (irl) be considered cheating? Or if Delta sells some of its 738s coming straight from Boeing at a higher price because they can not affford them anymore, would that be cheating?

[flyhegs]

I didn't say it is cheating , see (It isn't a bug neither is it real cheating but it defenetly isn't "realistic") , but if it makes more slots then i have no problem with it . didn't know that . But now Ziliu , seems that are u in this biz . Do people buy ?

Or if Delta sells some of its 738s coming straight from Boeing at a higher price because they can not affford them anymore, would that be cheating?
No , nut this defently isn't the same, before here they buy it just to sell it .

Leasing companies are something else . This is there Job . If u wanna be a leasing companie , buy Airliners and lease them , not operate them .
Stay :cool: everybody

[QUEPASO?]

I do it, temporaly, but i sell my A319's for only 3 mil more than they're worth. I want it to make money fast so i been doing this to get out of the regional business and go on into the Long Hauls, but it takes a long time to build money like this. Specially if you start with nothing like me.

I consider this like Real State, there are so many ways that seem ilegal, but aren't, and you can make a lot of money by it.

[Yesthatsme]

yeah its the econmy

[wdleiser]

I think that if the plane doesnt sell after 5 days and its ridiculiously overpriced he shouldnt be able to sell that aircraft within the next 7 days.

[mma]

Originally posted by wdleiser
I think that if the plane doesnt sell after 5 days and its ridiculiously overpriced he shouldnt be able to sell that aircraft within the next 7 days.

This I do agree to....

I know its a hard area, however if you look at some of the AC on the Used Market, I can show you some that started out NEW ( 0 Years ) and now still there and are ( 1 Year ) old. But the asking price is still that of 25% over the NEW buy price.

So your suggestion of a time limit is a fair comment.

[ziliu]

Originally posted by wdleiser
I think that if the plane doesnt sell after 5 days and its ridiculiously overpriced he shouldnt be able to sell that aircraft within the next 7 days.

"He" isn't able to sell the plane until someone buys it, right? And since nobody will buy such a plane, this whole rule is quite pointless I reckon...

[Maestro69]

I reckon this whole thread is pointless, but hey, im not stopping people from arguing on something non-important at the moment....

[QUEPASO?]

Not everyone makes it doing this kind of money! Most people have a bad overview over it, and think people will pay anything for a used A319 or Q400, but no, in order to make money this way, buy new aircraft and sell it by just a little more than its worth, this way people think its a good deal rather than wait in line for new ones.

You should also do some research on what are the hottest aircraft around, this way you dont buy an aircraft no one wants.

[dazwalsh]

no body forces u to buy the bloody aircraft so shhhhh its not cheating its called..ripping someone off. there is a difference

[velvetine]

I park my planes in the Used Planes market when I don't have time to put them in new routes and don't want to incur payroll charges by the planes hanging around. I price them really high so NO ONE BUYS THEM.

[flyhegs]

Nice idea Travellynn . But what if some dumbass comes and buys it ?