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Solution to Constant Expansion


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#321
KevinAero

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Don't like this
KevinAero

#322
Trogdor

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I still believe that one of the simplest ways to limit constant expansion is to create a limit or set an increasing cost associated with bringing more and more aircraft into service at the same time, and limit the number of aircraft that can be put into service simultaneously (including from the lease and second hand market).

 

Spamlines work by ordering across a large range of aircraft types to ensure new deliveries are constantly streaming in, plus sucking up planes from the second hand market.

 

So introduce a simple calculation that applies no penalty to the first aircraft type introduced, a small penalty to the second, greater for third etc. As long as an airline has simultaneous deliveries, the penalty applies. The penalty would also apply to the second hand market. Also - limit deliveries from the secondhand market in a similar way new deliveries are spread out (but to a lesser extent).

 

That would solve a large part of the problem IMO



#323
Porterhouse7070

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Perhaps youre suggesting that when a certain amount of aircraft is met you have to sign an agreement of some sort w/manufacturers, thus increasing costs of aircraft outside of those manufacturers?



#324
ManiaMuse

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I think as touched on above you need to significantly increase the maintenance/operational costs of operating multiple aircraft types. By significantly, I mean like 50-100 times more, enough to really eat into profit margins. Even in real life there aren't that many airlines that operate more than 4-5 types, especially operating similar aircraft from different manufacturers. And then massively increase operation costs as an airline grows, especially if flies from lots of hubs/different counties.

Then to go with that I think it should be made a lot more difficult to acquire a bunch of aircraft in a short space of time. I'm not sure how you do that, maybe impose far harsher credit ratings which take longer to improve and stricter aircraft lease limits. Perhaps also restrict deliveries to one per week per player, regardless of manufacturer which would discourage spamming aircraft types. The only problem then is that players wouldn't order less efficient aircraft so you might need to bring back manufacturer waiting lists to encourage diversity (production could be increased if an aircraft model is popular as the game world gets older I suppose to stop things waiting lists getting too long). Production slots could be bought from other players, that could be fun although open to lots of exploitation/cheating I imagine...

Would be good if something could be done to encourage competion on routes on grounds other than just cost. Yes people like budget airlines but they still take time to establish themselves on new routes and people will still fly a 'premium' carrier if the price difference isn't too great or the service/flexibility is better. Perhaps apply a penalty on market share for establishing routes, even ones with no competition. And allow advertising/promotions for individual routes if you want them to be established quicker (probably would need to limit the number of routes you could advertise at the same time or at least make it reasonably expensive)

#325
Jarkii

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I'm down



#326
Joeco

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Forgive me for not reading through all of the many suggestions here, but I think this one is novel: have fuel prices change over time.

 

This would:

  • Reflect one of the major challenges that airlines face.
  • Be an 'external factor' that has to be managed, but unlike 'random' events like strikes or accidents, effect all players equally.
  • Encourage expansion when prices are low (like in the real world), but closer management / contraction when prices are high. This would get at the central concern of this topic, which is around stopping never-ending expansion.
  • Influence decisions about whether to use fuel efficient aircraft or not. A player might gamble that prices will stay low and get stung by a sudden spike, or invest in fuel efficient aircraft and reap the rewards when prices go through the roof.

I don't know about these things, but my hope is that a macro factor like this would be a relatively easy change to make.

I also support the many calls for more dynamic demand.



#327
leer30

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If it has already been posted apologies - but I think ranking the game on profit from expenses would be better than purely turnover.

 

If airlines had to be more profitable from the outlay they spend, would make the game more realistic.

 

ie. a small airline that makes a 70/30 profit/expense ratio is better than a bigger airline making a 60/40 ratio, would encourage airlines to make routes more profitable (rather than more of them). 



#328
bAnderson

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We just need micromanagement to keep the game rolling. I don't always expand, especially at the end of a game. I try more to replace older aircraft, like I am now. But more micromanaging would be fun.


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#329
Jarkii

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A tedious shore i have to do is replace airplanes with unmatching performance, like replacing the 707s with dc-10s.



#330
Flanco Air Enterprises

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There should be separate game worlds. A heavily realistic, hard, in depth world that is similar to running an airline in real life, and one that is just how it is now. People should be able to choose if they want realism or fun.

#331
Talamare

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How about instituting marginal tax brackets. The more you make, the more taxes you pay.

 

Would help to slow down how explosively large you get in later years.

Hell, also add in a Plane Tax, the more Planes you have, the larger the Tax.



#332
Breadquanda

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I know I'm a lil late, but I like it!



#333
og EKPO

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Like the environment, Airline-Empires needs to have some sort of limiting factor that prevents airlines from growing too large. I think that the main problems that this simulation really has are:

 

-Lack of fuel prices

-Lack of change in passenger demand

-Lack of airline crashes and influential reputation

 

For fuel prices: many aircraft in this airline simulation simply won't work in the real world due to the fuel prices! Efficiency is supposed to be key, but if you have enough money, you could easily use an army of inefficient IL-62s to build an airline empire. Due to fuel prices though, in the real world, IL-62s could become profitable or unprofitable, depending on the fuel price, while ultra-efficient aircraft such as Boeing 787s would beat IL-62s out of the industry. This is also the beauty of the current game, though: with a lack of fuel prices, airlines can build empires with unique aircraft that aren't normally used regularly in the real world, such as IL-86s and Yak-42s.

 

For passenger demand: in Airline-Empires, passenger demand is relatively stagnant. Passenger demand only changes with airine competition, not with airline seasons. Not everyone wants to go to Florida in the summer, but a lot more in winter do! Therefore, there should be such thing as fluctuating passenger demand. During certain times of the year, passenger demand could explode, stay the same, decrease, or even disappear completely. This means that many routes would have to become seasonal instead of daily, and would decrease profit margins when the aircraft are idle.

 

For airline crashes and influential reputation: let's use an example. Say Spirit Airlines starts offering ultra-cheap fares from Los Angeles to Shanghai for the roundtrip price of $600. However, that will never happen. Why? Because Spirit Airlines also has low profit margins as a result of its ultra-low fares. Plus, its bad reputation lowers the amount of passengers willing to go on it. This is what I'll call "influential reputation," where reputation would influence loadfactor, no matter what the price is. Adding airline crashes to the mix would also limit passengers temporarily, and fierce competition in the real world adds to the limiting of passengers. Sound regulations, such as those at Long Beach Airport, would limit aircraft operations even more. As a result, constant expansion no longer becomes a goal, and instead, survival becomes the main goal. 

 



#334
bAnderson

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Would a crash cause a reputation loss to only flights with the airline or would it especially affect the type that crashed? And would fleets be able to be grounded? Like, if five 737s crashed in two months, would any flights on 737s be with lower reputation because of lacking confidence around the globe, and could 737s be grounded with an extra maintenance cost to fix the problem with them? And what about other types of problems, like a storm canceling all flights from a certain airport and the rebooking of these flights? Or landing gear incidents? In-flight fires? Any other non-hull loss accidents?

Current Brands:

Aerostar Airlines

Quantum

Tropical Airlines

 

 

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#335
Gandercheese

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And as I said already i another thread, you need to limit the configs to realistic values. It's just too easy to make money with a 747 in 14F 60C 540Y. 



#336
Aguila

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I hope we could build new airports with something like 20 thousand millions or something similar, so people would save money to make the new airports.



#337
Aguila

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And as I said already i another thread, you need to limit the configs to realistic values. It's just too easy to make money with a 747 in 14F 60C 540Y. 

 

Well, in real life it is easy too, the hard part is to get the 747 and the route authorization!



#338
Village Idiot

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The game is heavily geared towards operational aspects of running an airline. I'd like to see more strategy.

 

A better demand model is the key to improving the game but I have a couple of other ideas:

 

  • A more realistic corporate model with external shareholders expecting dividends and a return on capital employed would be highly beneficial. That way capital build-up would be much more difficult. In real life you can't just have money sitting in the bank without delivering either a return to shareholders or employing that capital in investments. The ability to borrow money on favorable terms and flat lease rates and easy ability to lease aircraft make things too easy. Measuring company value like the game does now is completely unrealistic as to how corporations are actually valued.
  • All gate capacity should be CUTE which would enable easier access for new entrants. Having increased slot fees when an airport gets constricted would also help in increasing costs for all incumbents.
  • It should not be possible to set frequency for a route to less than three times weekly. It is too easy to have low frequency/high fare routes as cash cows to begin the game. 
  • Marketing costs should be higher with a fixed amount per airport to reflect local a bare minimum of necessary marketing. Above that level regional/national/international marketing should be possible. 
  • More ways to win the game based on initial market size and potential would be a good starting point. If there are three classes and different ways of medalling within those classes it would be fun. I think that subjective measures such as best logo/livery, best PR and marketing, best airline concept would all be things that could be voted on.


#339
KawaiiBert

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make it harder for spamlines, e.g. by saying that you can buy limited aircrafts per month, and than say'in that you can count the months.

example:

you can order 20 aircraft/month.

if you have 40 aircraft that the world is 11 months furter, you can order 180 aircraft, but the spamliner who orders 20 aircrafts/month can only order 20 aircraft.

it does also make it harder to renew old fleet, so if we are using a fine on old aircraft, a number 1 spamliner can drop from the first to 11th position, wich makes the game harder. 

the old aircraft fine must depend on revenue, like 50% of the revenue of a more than 10 year old aircraft as fine.



#340
HariKari

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Making passenger demand not equal actual stated demand has a massive inflationary impact on the game. By a factor of 10, I'd say. Hence spamlines running 100+ daily flights to the middle of nowhere because they can. 






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