398 replies to this topic

[ashdd]

it would be nice to see business expansion through other means, be great if players could expand there airlines and business through different portfolios like opening lounges, hotels, call centres or travel branches at airports/destinations.

id also like to a see a feature that allowed you to play airline empires as a sandbox version with no time constraints/world end (like the real world) this would allow time to expand and sleek the process of running an airline and dealing with day to day issues like world trends, airport closures due to weather etc, maybe having the option to buy out other players and there airlines or buying shares in there airlines to assist them with expansion.

 

finally be really good if there was a paintshop section to the website which would allow users to create there own logo's and livery designs

 

that would be my thoughts.

[konj1]

For the "Realistic" record, as of May 2015, American had the largest fleet in the world. 965 aircraft. That took 80 years and multiple mega-mergers to accomplish.

Aviation history 101...

It's not the record by far, Aeroflot may have had even more then 10,000 aircraft when it was the state monopoly of the USSR.

 

But yeah, I agree that with time mega-airlines with more than 1,000 aircraft should become more the exception then the rule in future AE (even if I'm building one again at this very moment )

[Viero]

In my opinion, I think there should be limits on a number of things:

 

1. Fleet

Currently, if you maintain a good credit standing, you can lease 10,000 aircraft at once. That's absurdly high, even most spamlines don't use that many. The largest airline in the world by fleet (American) has 965 aircraft. They own most, if not all, of their aircraft. RyanAir is the tenth-largest, and although they lease most of their aircraft they still only number 306 of them. There should be an appropriate maximum limit on leases and/or total planes, the largest airlines who attempt realism in AE number about 1,500 aircraft at most.

 

1b. Fleet Types

A lot of spamlines operate every type of aircraft they can, buying out the whole used market. This leads to the airlines having 20+ different aircraft types (variants not included). The now-merged American has 9 types in use (17 including variants), I think 20 types (variants included) would be a fair amount. Additionally, there should be a limit on how many widebody types an airline can use, even Emirates has only 4 basic types in use (9 including variants). 5 basic types should be the maximum.

 

2. Hubs

Delta has 13 hubs, the most of any airline. Although this is about as many as even the largest spamlines have, they tend to utilize them much more than most real airlines, having routes to every conceivable destination from them. What I propose here is a limit on hubs, at around 15. Another thing, a lot of spamlines technically should have hubs but do not declare them as such. I think that an airline should be able to have no more than 5 gates at a domestic airport (leased or terminal) before forcing the airline to to/automatically declaring the airport a hub. The existing ten gate lease limit should apply in all airports, regardless of their location relative to the airline. If possible the gate limit might also be changed depending on distance from the airport, due to how they're used (you can lease less gates at an airport 7,000 mi away than one 2,000 mi away, since you have to use much bigger aircraft on the latter).

 

3. Prices/Competition

There should be a limit on absurdly low prices as well. Take this small airline I have, based in Papatee, Tahiti. On a route between PPT and LAX, 4105 mi away and with a 66Y demand, I have a $380 Y price (from an original of ~$800) and am competing against 2 other US-based airlines on it. I think there should be a limit on how low the price on a route can be set and how many airlines can operate on a route due to demand, most spamlines drastically undercut routes to discourage any competition and flood absurdly small routes to reap profit from them. Additionally, adding onto the last part, there should be a limit on how much over the demand an airline can place its flights. It's fair to serve 450Y on a 300Y route, but it's another thing to serve 700Y on a 140Y route.

 

Any combination of these three would help solve the problem, and help provide a more enjoyable experience for everyone. If you want to spam, go to Open Worlds, that's why they're there.

[TNT88]

In my opinion, I think there should be limits on a number of things:

 

1. Fleet

Currently, if you maintain a good credit standing, you can lease 10,000 aircraft at once. That's absurdly high, even most spamlines don't use that many. The largest airline in the world by fleet (American) has 965 aircraft. They own most, if not all, of their aircraft. RyanAir is the tenth-largest, and although they lease most of their aircraft they still only number 306 of them. There should be an appropriate maximum limit on leases and/or total planes, the largest airlines who attempt realism in AE number about 1,500 aircraft at most.

 

1b. Fleet Types

A lot of spamlines operate every type of aircraft they can, buying out the whole used market. This leads to the airlines having 20+ different aircraft types (variants not included). The now-merged American has 9 types in use (17 including variants), I think 20 types (variants included) would be a fair amount. Additionally, there should be a limit on how many widebody types an airline can use, even Emirates has only 4 basic types in use (9 including variants). 5 basic types should be the maximum.

 

2. Hubs

Delta has 13 hubs, the most of any airline. Although this is about as many as even the largest spamlines have, they tend to utilize them much more than most real airlines, having routes to every conceivable destination from them. What I propose here is a limit on hubs, at around 15. Another thing, a lot of spamlines technically should have hubs but do not declare them as such. I think that an airline should be able to have no more than 5 gates at a domestic airport (leased or terminal) before forcing the airline to to/automatically declaring the airport a hub. The existing ten gate lease limit should apply in all airports, regardless of their location relative to the airline. If possible the gate limit might also be changed depending on distance from the airport, due to how they're used (you can lease less gates at an airport 7,000 mi away than one 2,000 mi away, since you have to use much bigger aircraft on the latter).

 

3. Prices/Competition

There should be a limit on absurdly low prices as well. Take this small airline I have, based in Papatee, Tahiti. On a route between PPT and LAX, 4105 mi away and with a 66Y demand, I have a $380 Y price (from an original of ~$800) and am competing against 2 other US-based airlines on it. I think there should be a limit on how low the price on a route can be set and how many airlines can operate on a route due to demand, most spamlines drastically undercut routes to discourage any competition and flood absurdly small routes to reap profit from them. Additionally, adding onto the last part, there should be a limit on how much over the demand an airline can place its flights. It's fair to serve 450Y on a 300Y route, but it's another thing to serve 700Y on a 140Y route.

 

Any combination of these three would help solve the problem, and help provide a more enjoyable experience for everyone. If you want to spam, go to Open Worlds, that's why they're there.

AE is not exclusively made for realistic Airlines. It's created to simulate what would happen when you got the chance to create airlines within the real life situation. Limiting possibility of growing an airline would make it unrealistic. There is regulations on how many plane, you could lease in real life. Heck, even Leasing company would Leased 10.000 airplane if they could do it in real life. Also, suggesting that Spammers only belong on open world is ignorant. If Ryanair able to spam European market in real life, why can't we do it in simulation?

[Viero]

Of course AE isn't made specifically for realistic airlines, there's a reason we have open worlds. Hence, the names. It only makes sense to have worlds for players who want to constantly expand, and worlds for players who want to play more realistically. That's the entire reason this discussion arose in the first place, that there are spammers in the worlds for realistic players.

 

Also I fail to see how any new limitations would make the game unrealistic. There's a reason American Airlines, the largest airline in the world, isn't the same size as most AE spamlines. And how is suggesting spammers be on the open worlds ignorant? That's the entire reason they're there. So that people who want to constantly expand can do that without limitations.

 

And I take it you didn't see what I said about RyanAir, although they're large they have about 300 planes, much less than AE spamlines, and aren't so massive that mainline airlines are completely shut out of the market. You could do a RyanAir fine with the limitations I'm suggesting, but you wouldn't be able to do a typical AE spamline.

[TNT88]

I don't think you understand the meaning of Realistic World in AE. It means the regulations and situations in those world are closely symbolize the aviation industry in real life. It's not a world where The developer would put restrictions on how to play or run your airlines. Also, the spamming also come with restrictions in realistic world just like any other realistic airlines, like political restrictions or gate restrictions. Open World in the other hand, a really different game. Also, you cannot justified realistic situation for Spamlines. Regardless how many plane real life airlines owned, it shouldn't have much impact on AE.

[Tesla]

In my opinion, I think there should be limits on a number of things:
 
1. Fleet
Currently, if you maintain a good credit standing, you can lease 10,000 aircraft at once. That's absurdly high, even most spamlines don't use that many. The largest airline in the world by fleet (American) has 965 aircraft. They own most, if not all, of their aircraft. RyanAir is the tenth-largest, and although they lease most of their aircraft they still only number 306 of them. There should be an appropriate maximum limit on leases and/or total planes, the largest airlines who attempt realism in AE number about 1,500 aircraft at most.
 
1b. Fleet Types
A lot of spamlines operate every type of aircraft they can, buying out the whole used market. This leads to the airlines having 20+ different aircraft types (variants not included). The now-merged American has 9 types in use (17 including variants), I think 20 types (variants included) would be a fair amount. Additionally, there should be a limit on how many widebody types an airline can use, even Emirates has only 4 basic types in use (9 including variants). 5 basic types should be the maximum.
 
2. Hubs
Delta has 13 hubs, the most of any airline. Although this is about as many as even the largest spamlines have, they tend to utilize them much more than most real airlines, having routes to every conceivable destination from them. What I propose here is a limit on hubs, at around 15. Another thing, a lot of spamlines technically should have hubs but do not declare them as such. I think that an airline should be able to have no more than 5 gates at a domestic airport (leased or terminal) before forcing the airline to to/automatically declaring the airport a hub. The existing ten gate lease limit should apply in all airports, regardless of their location relative to the airline. If possible the gate limit might also be changed depending on distance from the airport, due to how they're used (you can lease less gates at an airport 7,000 mi away than one 2,000 mi away, since you have to use much bigger aircraft on the latter).
 
3. Prices/Competition
There should be a limit on absurdly low prices as well. Take this small airline I have, based in Papatee, Tahiti. On a route between PPT and LAX, 4105 mi away and with a 66Y demand, I have a $380 Y price (from an original of ~$800) and am competing against 2 other US-based airlines on it. I think there should be a limit on how low the price on a route can be set and how many airlines can operate on a route due to demand, most spamlines drastically undercut routes to discourage any competition and flood absurdly small routes to reap profit from them. Additionally, adding onto the last part, there should be a limit on how much over the demand an airline can place its flights. It's fair to serve 450Y on a 300Y route, but it's another thing to serve 700Y on a 140Y route.
 
Any combination of these three would help solve the problem, and help provide a more enjoyable experience for everyone. If you want to spam, go to Open Worlds, that's why they're there.

$380 Y class on a 4000 mile route is sort of an LCC. A price limit would cause LCCs to be destroyed.

[Viero]

Those regulations are there so players can play with "realistic" restrictions, right? Spamlines defeat the entire purpose of those restrictions to begin with, so it would only make sense to tone them more so the world can be more realistic (who would need to lease 100,000 aircraft?). Also I fail to see why spamlines should be fine in realistic worlds when the open worlds exist. The open worlds allow much more freedom for that, running one in a realistic world is like trying to drive a car up a mountain when there's already a tunnel going through it.

 

And to the sacked Jeremy Clarkson, you raise a good point. I feel like there should still be some limit though, maybe by destination or distance. Setting one up on a 4000 mi route is kind of unfitting for an LCC, even less so to a place like Papatee. If people want to do a Ryanair or Oasis or Scoot they should, but it shouldn't mean they can set up a route to every city on Earth. When you start doing that, you've got a spamline.

 

Also the example I using was anything but an LCC, the competition on that route is just an absurdly large airline wanting to maintain a grip on everything.

[TNT88]

Yes, regulations in REAL LIFE, not made up regulations by players on AE. There is no regulations on how many plane an airlines could have in Real Life. So adding that regulations would make the world unrealistic. By that meaning, You cannot make realistic airlines in unrealistic situation/regulations.

 

This is the major flaw in your argument. You can't create realistic airlines when you created a world with unrealistic regulations.

[Hake.]

You can't create realistic airlines when you created a world with unrealistic regulations.

Which is why AE4 exists, to implement these regulations...

[The Apple Pie]

AE4 is just a myth.

 

-Shekelstein

[TNT88]

Which is why AE4 exists, to implement these regulations...

I doubt limiting the amount of aircraft would help defeating spamlines, 500 widebody aircraft is enough to spam any market in the world in real life.

[Hake.]

I doubt limiting the amount of aircraft would help defeating spamlines, 500 widebody aircraft is enough to spam any market in the world.

See how I mentioned AE4? There's a different demand structure in it, you wouldn't route 500 widebodies.

[TNT88]

See how I mentioned AE4? There's a different demand structure in it, you wouldn't route 500 widebodies.

How did you know? You haven't played it yet. I'm just saying, 500 widebodies is like 1000 narrow-body. It's a lot.

[Hake.]

How did you know? You haven't played it yet. I'm just saying, 500 widebodies is like 1000 narrow-body. It's a lot.

Yuxi has already stated there will be a more realistic demand model.

[TNT88]

Yuxi has already stated there will be a more realistic demand model.

If that means lower demand, then spamlines would definitely blooming there. I've heard about the stop-over as well. It's a spamlines dreams.

[Hake.]

If that means lower demand, then spamlines would definitely blooming there. I've heard about the stop-over as well. It's a spamlines dreams.

Not lower demand necessarily, I never mentioned it'd be lowered. Just harder to get a massive hub to funnel pax through. Of course stopovers are a two sided coin.

[TNT88]

Not lower demand necessarily, I never mentioned it'd be lowered. Just harder to get a massive hub to funnel pax through. Of course stopovers are a two sided coin.

I mean, some of he current routes is too big compared in real life. Hence spamlines able to make the most of it. Stop over are spamlines dream. Trust on that one. You'll know when they send 30 A380 for LHR-DXB-SYD routes.

[Hake.]

I mean, some of he current routes is too big compared in real life. Hence spamlines able to make the most of it. Stop over are spamlines dream. Trust on that one. You'll know when they send 30 A380 for LHR-DXB-SYD routes.

There isn't space for 30 A380s on LHR - DXB - SYD because demand model...

[TNT88]

There isn't space for 30 A380s on LHR - DXB - SYD because demand model...

Isn't space? like gate restrictions?