20 replies to this topic

[sombranegra79]

I have a couple of suggestions for realism - I'm managing an airline based in Mongolia and the year is 1977, during the Communist era. First off, we could have political borders change as they did up to present day, so that Moscow would be in the Soviet Union, not Russia, up until 1991. We could also have the opposite of the open-skies agreement in the realistic worlds to restrict access to Soviet airports or airspace from American (or South Korean, for that matter) carriers, for example. Finally, we could also restrict airlines based in Soviet-bloc countries to buying Soviet planes, used or new, or at least allow airlines to start up with a Tupolev 154 or something. The Tu-134 and Yak-40 could be nice additions to the game, too. How does that sound?

[natsirt44]

Good idea( ), I'm just not sure if thats very easy for the developers to implement...

[sombranegra79]

Good idea( ), I'm just not sure if thats very easy for the developers to implement...

Yeah I figured... just an idea though

[cavok]

Also,you can fly from China Mainland to Taiwan in realistic world!

[bolli]

you shouldn't be able to....

[SirMoo]

I have a couple of suggestions for realism - I'm managing an airline based in Mongolia and the year is 1977, during the Communist era. First off, we could have political borders change as they did up to present day, so that Moscow would be in the Soviet Union, not Russia, up until 1991. We could also have the opposite of the open-skies agreement in the realistic worlds to restrict access to Soviet airports or airspace from American (or South Korean, for that matter) carriers, for example. Finally, we could also restrict airlines based in Soviet-bloc countries to buying Soviet planes, used or new, or at least allow airlines to start up with a Tupolev 154 or something. The Tu-134 and Yak-40 could be nice additions to the game, too. How does that sound?

While I think a completely Historic game would be fun (with restricts on airlines basing in the US as well) I think there would be a major problem with the scripting for 'airspace' restrictions. The system (if I'm not mistaken) calculates distances based on Great Circle lines point to point. It would be difficult to start scripting it to where a plane going from South Corea to Turkey but could not fly through China, Russia, Cambodia and Malaysia (random nations to prove a point) it would be VERY hard to calculate the distance. Country restrictions are one thing... Air Space restrictions are a whole other beast.

[sviridovt]

I agree with you, I believe that ordering say, concorde in US is not realistic, I do think it would be complex to implement though

[SirMoo]

I agree with you, I believe that ordering say, concorde in US is not realistic, I do think it would be complex to implement though

How is it not realistic?! So... Braniff shouldn't have used one? Just because no US airlines bought one does not mean they couldn't/shouldn't.

[BritAbroad]

From what I recall, the US Government wasn't exactly Concorde friendly. I also thought the Branniff one was leased from BA on the post stopover leg of its flight, taping over the "G-" in the registration with an "N".

But yeh, no reason why Concorde shouldn't be allowed to be sold to US airlines.

[SirMoo]

From what I recall, the US Government wasn't exactly Concorde friendly. I also thought the Branniff one was leased from BA on the post stopover leg of its flight, taping over the "G-" in the registration with an "N".

But yeh, no reason why Concorde shouldn't be allowed to be sold to US airlines.

I think the concord wasn't exactly American friendly. It's the whole 'Concords Go Boom' thing.

Legally, Braniff owned the Concord when it was on US soil... Whole temporary transfer of ownership thing... So in a way it WAS their Concord.

[un1]

Personally, I think implementing Cold War restrictions (ie no Russian airlines on US soil from 1979-1989(?), no Western aircraft for Soviet airlines until 1991 and no Western airlines can operate past the iron curtain(citation needed)*) is more important than banning Concordes in the US.

*Actually, Pan Am's route map shows a flight to Warsaw from West Germany, so I dunno, maybe western airlines were only banned from the USSR?

[BritAbroad]

I thought (but I'm not certain) that international flights into and out of the USSR were only permitted through Moscow.
I also thought that countries not actually part of the USSR but still under the iron curtain (Poland, Hungary, etc) had their own arrangements.

[un1]

I thought (but I'm not certain) that international flights into and out of the USSR were only permitted through Moscow.
I also thought that countries not actually part of the USSR but still under the iron curtain (Poland, Hungary, etc) had their own arrangements.

Yeah I'm pretty sure about that, but in the 1970s world there is like 6 USSR based airlines, so having them all out of Moscow wouldn't be fun. (but realistic, maybe for the realistic sims)

And yeah, I think the non-USSR iron curtain states (especially Poland) aren't as regulated and allowed foreign industry during the communist era. Poland was urging to be free of the USSR's hands for nearly 50 years though so I'm not too surprised.

[Stevphfeniey]

Maybe if you put almost zero demand on flights from the US to the Iron Curtain, people wouldn't fly those routes

[un1]

Maybe if you put almost zero demand on flights from the US to the Iron Curtain, people wouldn't fly those routes

But they were flown in RL, so I don't see how realistic that is.

[Stevphfeniey]

I'm sure in real life there was some demand to fly from the US to the USSR and visa versa, but this demand I would imagine was extremely small.

[SirMoo]

Was it not through a intermediate state? Like US -> Sunan via Beijing or something to that effect? I doubt there was direct US/USSR.

[sombranegra79]

While I think a completely Historic game would be fun (with restricts on airlines basing in the US as well) I think there would be a major problem with the scripting for 'airspace' restrictions. The system (if I'm not mistaken) calculates distances based on Great Circle lines point to point. It would be difficult to start scripting it to where a plane going from South Corea to Turkey but could not fly through China, Russia, Cambodia and Malaysia (random nations to prove a point) it would be VERY hard to calculate the distance. Country restrictions are one thing... Air Space restrictions are a whole other beast.

I agree that the airspace thing would be kinda hard to do. The aircraft purchasing restriction, though, could be an idea. If you run an airline in an Iron Curtain country, you shouldn't really be able to buy Western aircraft until 1989-91 depending on the country, let alone start off with a Western starting aircraft. I'd suggest having the Tupolev 154 as an additional starting aircraft choice. What happened to the Tu-134 and Yak-40, anyway?

[un1]

I'm sure in real life there was some demand to fly from the US to the USSR and visa versa, but this demand I would imagine was extremely small.

!?! Communist airlines don't operate for profit, they operate what routes the government tells them too. Though yes, Aeroflot did try to make money off of the foreigners on connecting flights.

Was it not through a intermediate state? Like US -> Sunan via Beijing or something to that effect? I doubt there was direct US/USSR.

Yeah, looking at a n 1975 timetable, it showed DME-LHR-JFK as their flight. But the demand in the game is more than enough for it to be possible to operate DME-JFK without the stop in LHR.

The time table also showed international flights out of LED (just to bust the all flights out of Moscow thing).

[Conor]

Poland was urging to be free of the USSR's hands for nearly 50 years though so I'm not too surprised.

First to escape the iron curtain if im correct?