11 replies to this topic

[OSUflight1]

I have tried different aircraft types and different routes and got the same results-VERY limited profits and most have NO profits at all.

I get very small profits on only a few routes with an Embraer 195 (maybe $10Ks per city at best). Most cities go negative. The B1900s are making a little money too (a few $1Ks per flight). I bought a pair of MD-80 family aircraft used and tried it on many different routes, all with negative profits, including one ways. Then I sold them and bought a pair of used DC-9s, all routes again, no profits. I sold one of them to buy HND-PEK gates and placed the remaining DC-9 on this route, and again, negative profits! So major US cities in the northeast and midwest = no profit. The largest cities in Asia = no profit.

The game has been struggling for months now since the restrictions were put in place and with the load factor/profit problems it really is not worth playing. It used to be you could have fun and have an actual "airline empire"; but now an airline empire is a few lousy turboprops, a new jet that makes few profits, and used aircraft that lose thousands. NOT fun at all.

Sim 2 is not playable at all. My sim 2 airline, Piedmont Airlines, is just a wimper compared to past rounds where I had hundreds of jets, including the A380. Sim 2 is not fun and until things change, I will not try sim 2 anymore. what is the point of airline empires if you cant build an airline? Wow, my beech 1900 makes $5 thousand on XYZ route, whoopie!


Sim 1 is still fun and my airline, Heartland Airlines, is doing very well. It has over 100 a/c including only Boeing 707s and Electras. I hope the next reset is in the 1970s though, as the best time in the industry (as far as airline/aircraft diversity goes) is the 1970s and 1980s!

Please overhaul sim 2. Please!

[Jet]

I agree. Though Sim1 is sometimes a kick up the backside:)

[gba222]

I absolutely agree. I've been seeing such low profits/losses (in spite of generally 100% load factors) that I am completely unable to pay off debts, due to my monthly costs (which aren't even that high) eating up my DOP. I too have previously done very well in sim2. I am forced to operate all routes one-way only and multiple frequencies are way out of the question. Not very realistic and not at all fun. The used aircraft, while really interesting, are generally completely unfeasible and the aging is pretty odd (i.e. there are 8 year old DC9-40's on there, and 18 year old MD-88's).

I completely appreciate the issues which support the current LF script, having read them many times on the forum, but in practice, it just completely negates the new aircraft, the new airports particularly and the whole 'Empires' concept of the game. I'm really really thankful that the developers have spent so much time and effort improving things recently, but this LF seems to have made negated a lot of that work.

That said, I don't think the old loadfactor was conducive to entirely fair playing conditions either. What is needed is a compromise - and I'm aware how much effort that would be. So until some sort of middle ground can be reached, I'd still have to go with the old LF - simply due to the fact that it would make using old aircraft and serving so many of the new airports more viable. Furthermore, I think that the gatehogging issues which previously plagued sim2 (when the old LF was in place) has been nicely resolved with the new gate restrictions - so there's one less competitive issue to worry about!

[mikhail]

just wanna ask some of us have been lobbying for this in the past. how hard it is to include timetabling in the game and maybe this could replace the crippling LF calculations? am sure this will give the game a big kick on the side, more interesting and "imperialistic' in its approach! :-)

[lipman]

I agree 100%. There is no point of even placing used aircraft in the market if you cant operate a profit out of those aircraft let alone new ones. I used to be in the top 30 all the time but now i'm in 150th position. This game needs a complete change of the LF factor. I will not play this game anymore until significant changes are made and i'm sure others are going to do the same. I can say half the members are on the verge of quitting this game because I can say that we're fed up with the way this game has been going over the past couple of months. BTW i'm not critisizing the developpers, i'm critisizing how the game has been run.

[gba222]

Now hang on a minute, while you make a legitimate point about the game - its going a bit far to start pointing out some downwards spiral trend in the way the game is run. The developers currently working on the game are doing this entirely voluntarily, work damn hard and do a bang up job - we've seen far more progress in sim2 in recent months than ever before and in spite of certain things not working very well, I'm very grateful. They can't get things right every single time and sim2 is meant to be a test/trial and error server. I understand your frustration, as I share in it, but there is no need to point fingers!

[Orion1982]

Can I offer an alternative view?

Whilst it was great to make $15m a day and buy two A333s a month out of the cashflow, that was unrealistic. It's far more realistic now in terms of returns.

I would agree that there should be some scope for profitability on the thinner routes when using the right a/c. For example, DEL-BOM should be a major route, but is barely profitable with an A319. Most mahor Indian routes just about support one ATR42!

The LFs on the major routes are pretty good I think, but we need more scope on the thinner ones.

Also, in reality, overheads would be much higher so we benefit there at the moment. Where we depart from reality is that a/c monthly lease payments should be possible. That way we don't have to buy from cashflow.

There is a great deal to be gained from developing the Alliance concept. If that was able to boost LFs (albeit at reduced seat revenue), we were able to rent single slots from gates held by partners and were able to lease a/c between alliance partners that would boost the realism, and make the game even more fun.

The used a/c facility is brilliant if you use it properly. The reality is that it works best early in the game. I doubt you would be competitive in the real world running your DC-9-40 head to head with an A318! Cheap to buy, expensive to maintain and fly.

As I've said before, Sim2 is being developed and we are somewhat privileged to take part in the development. Plus, it's free. Great work guys (and gals I presume). Keep up the good work.

[gba222]

Just my opinion, but I think that a slavish attachment to realism in this game would kill it. The purpose is fun and the aviation industry is a financial headache, even on a good day. I actually come here to play AE to get away from all that! I've been using the used market exactly as you prescribe, but I still think it needs work. I'd go into more detail, but I'm a bit short of time at the moment, will expand my thoughts later!

[Orion1982]

Each to their own! It was still a financial headache when I was in the industry, and it always will be, I suspect.

[lipman]

FYI for all the ppl saying that i mean i liked the way the game was months ago are misinturpreting wat i'm saying. What i'm trying to say is that when you close a route and reopen it with the same aircraft, your profits shouldnt nose dive like its doing to me. I went down 100k in a day with no new competion going on these routes.

[travelhouse]

Within sim2 what I do find is that the ONE-WAY returns is as if not the same as returns DOP, only tobias can tell us why.

Tobias did adjust returns within sim2, however the script is very unpredictable thus I think he didnt adjust any more, as Courtney made this script and like any alterations if your not sure of the values it is impossible to correct to solve issues.

We should look again at the issues holding or bugging sim2, as you all report bugs, both developers attend to them ASAP, I for one thank them for this. The downside is the LF script, if Tobias does have time, then I for one do ask if he is able to re-vamp it, using his own method.

Comments.

[paliair]

First off I want to thank the development team in all the effort they are putting into the game. Now I would like to say that I agree we need the LF adjusted. The game 5 to 6 months ago was too easy and anyone can get to make 15-20 mil DOP a day. We have gone from that to only making a good profit flying one way trips. As I read the posts of our players I see alot of people wanting this sim to be close to being real life. As stated many times before the LF in the smaller markets need to be opened up. Any player now knows that if you are not flying out of a major airport then you will make very little to no profit. I think that the developers need to put thier own touch and create a LF they can work with and adjust as it seems that what miller created only miller knows how to adjust it without killing other things in the game.

Again I love the game but it is a beta and adjustments are and will be needed. Please do not take this as a diss toward the game or developers. Thanks again to all you have done.

Pali Air