20 replies to this topic

[MedicManGNV]

Okay, so I'm a little mystified as I continue to play around with Airline Empires. It would seem that the route research option is about 50% math and 50% magick 8 ball Am I misinterpreting something here? Basically, here's what happens:

I research a possible route betwen two cities, I note in my research that there are currently no airlines flying between those cities. The estimated revenue calculator indicates that I'm going to make $22,000 for the route, so I buy the gate, put my plane on the route, calculate the revenue...and...what the hey! I'm loosing so much money that I will have to charge people to use the lavoratory, make them bring peanut butter and jelly sandwiches (not only for themselves, but for the flight crew) and everyone will have to stand up with trolley strap because I can't afford seats! :saint:

Okay, so this has happened to me a few times...the route estimate indicates a potential profit, the actual route indicates a healthy loss...am I doing something wrong here or should I invest in Tarot cards?

[AirFitch]

You're not the first to be complaining about this.....Travelhouse has supposedly done research on this and has presented her findings to Miller and he should eb repairing it.....

[travelhouse]

Okay, so I'm a little mystified as I continue to play around with Airline Empires. It would seem that the route research option is about 50% math and 50% magick 8 ball Am I misinterpreting something here? Basically, here's what happens:

I research a possible route betwen two cities, I note in my research that there are currently no airlines flying between those cities. The estimated revenue calculator indicates that I'm going to make $22,000 for the route, so I buy the gate, put my plane on the route, calculate the revenue...and...what the hey! I'm loosing so much money that I will have to charge people to use the lavoratory, make them bring peanut butter and jelly sandwiches (not only for themselves, but for the flight crew) and everyone will have to stand up with trolley strap because I can't afford seats! :saint:

Okay, so this has happened to me a few times...the route estimate indicates a potential profit, the actual route indicates a healthy loss...am I doing something wrong here or should I invest in Tarot cards?

OK not sure if you are trying to access the new listed airports, or if they are some of the old locations, however have a read of this and see if you can understand:

Here is some important information and valid till Miller has the chance and time to make alterations towards this.

Market Research of a new route;

I have found that unless you are using major locations with a RETURN route this feature is close to the mark and on the ONE-WAY this feature shouldn’t be used at a genuine guide.

Example:

All done with Auto-pricing set.

I am researching a A330-300 return route from BOS to SFO

Estimated $195.00 DOP

I set the route and this resulted in $201.680 DOP

Then took return with A330-300 from LAX to SFO

Research said $13,667 DOP

I made this route and received $18,335 DOP

Took a not so popular location with one of my hubs

EWR to TXK

Q400 x 1 route return will give me $2,944 DOP

Set the route and went minus -$43,860 DOP

Performed this with many of the new destinations and all but a few wasn’t able to generate a positive return so players, don’t expect the new airports to give you that added DOP you may expect.

Then I made a single one-way routes:

BOS to HKG

A380 gave me $301,440 DOP

Set this route gave me $190,110 DOP

A346 gave $287,100 DOP

Set it and returned $113,190 DOP

Took another one way route of

HKG to FRA in A330-300 single route

Research gave me $235,556

Set the route gave me $198,220 DOP

A380 performed below standard to receive $187,446 DOP

Tried this with B777-300 and B747-400 both gave even less DOP

There seems to be a vast difference in one ways compared to returns.

A lot depends on the aircraft you select, there seems to be fewer popular aircraft on the long-hauls that will generate a return, compared to past rounds of the game, I am sure Miller understands this and will be adjusting in due time.

The research does take into account Hub’s PAX and existing players on that route, it is quite useful as a guide, remember Miller did say +5- % of the expected revenue, was not able to fault this on returns, one ways is a different story.

The research function Miller did quote this in the start of the submitting this:

The auto-pricing feature only works to within 5% of a given price. What this means is that if the price is high, a 5% difference could mean all the difference in the world.

For instance: a $2,000 fare will be checked at 5% increments: $2,100 and $1900. With these large swings, its extremely likely that the actual best price is within that span somewhere but won't be found.


and he also said;

I've spent countless hours over the last three days putting together the auto pricing functionality. I think I've got it where it needs to be, but be ginger with it, as there's bound to be bugs.

Here's how it works: When you're setting the ticket price, whether it be on the new route creation, route update, or research, simply click the "Turn Auto Pricing On" button. Don't forget to set your frequency, and calculate your revenue. Your pricing will be automatically set to the best price (+/- 5%) and if any of your competitors make changes that affect this route, your price will automatically be updated.

But its not going to be perfect, because every time you adjust your routes, all of the other players with auto-pricing will adjust to your changes. Of course you can always go back to manual pricing by clicking the "Turn Auto Pricing Off" button. Be ready to constantly change your route if you do this though.

Please make sure to report your bugs in the bugs forum.

Enjoy!

[miller22 (inactive)]

Hmmm. When I coded this feature, I wanted to get it to equal the DOP if you were to open the route, so something isn't right. I'll have a good look at the research script to see if I can find where it's coming up with different values than the script that runs when you open a route. They're all running off of the same LF script, so I'm a bit confused as to why this would be happening.

[flightsimer]

i dont know if its just me, but all of the routes that i have tried to set up in the last week or so all have had a neg. return. they all had no other airlines on the route, they also were all between large cities that had been in the server already. They also all were suppose to give a return of over 100k but when made they were returning a neg 200k, so something isnt right there.

[travelhouse]

i dont know if its just me, but all of the routes that i have tried to set up in the last week or so all have had a neg. return. they all had no other airlines on the route, they also were all between large cities that had been in the server already. They also all were suppose to give a return of over 100k but when made they were returning a neg 200k, so something isnt right there.

quote just two locations (from / to) and quote the actual aircraft you are trying to place, will fully test it for you?

[flightsimer]

ok hold on... i have a quick question though... what all is taken into account for the cost to fly route? i think that may be the problem... i was researching a route, and was looking at that number and it just didnt seem right (at least not if it is just the cost per hour).

this was the route i was researching that cought my eye on this. i was researching a route from PIT to LCY with a 787(yes i know it doesnt fit in there but was just looking for routes...). it was gonna give me a return of neg 30k... but that fine that wasnt what i was looking at... the 787 only costs 2300, per hour to opperate which since it was a 15 hour flight (round trip), it should of only costed me 36,347... it said it was gonna cost me 227k, so is that right? if so im guessing that fuel isnt included in the base opperated price?

here was a route that showed being a good route in research but when setting it up it sucked.

from pit to reno with a 737-700.

Ticket Price--Cost to Fly Route--O & D Load Factor--Connecting Load Factor--Total Load Factor----Revenues--------Profit------freq

researched: $987--$174,643--------------75%--------------------24.6%----------------------75%---------------$271,627----$97,163-------2
Actual:-----$200---------N/A-----------------70.11%----------------22.98%----------------------N/A----------------$52,7438----$-122,441-----2

[travelhouse]

this was the route i was researching that cought my eye on this. i was researching a route from PIT to LCY with a 787

The problem is the destination location, (LCY) being a new added location this has a 99% negitive even from larger locations in USA

PIT has droped in value since the new round too, a lot of other players will add to that

Please read some of my posts about new added locations, you will then understand that many players are unable to generate a DOP form them.

[flightsimer]

well really i was just using lcy to look at the costs on how much it costs to fly... and is that right? but the flight i was talking about was the pit to reno one...

[travelhouse]

well really i was just using lcy to look at the costs on how much it costs to fly... and is that right? but the flight i was talking about was the pit to reno one...

OK, 1st let me say this and this is a very valid arguement in this Sim2 round.

PIT is much lower in this round than in past rounds (Only Miller will know why)

RNO, - What you must do is look at the gate in question, see how many free gates are there in RNO, there must be a reason why this is the case, again this city is CRAP, sorry to say. (Miller again will only know why)

Now

2nd.

You want to add a B787. Massive aircraft for low capacity (again within the game) returns.

However if you reduce the aircraft to say A319 then I get this result from the advance reserch page;

Airbus A319-100
CFM International (GE Snecma) CFM56-5A4

Profit $42,175 for 1 return leg.

2 return legs I would expect according to the estimate $72,172

I applied this route and it returned ;

DOP $23,013

Now this is way below what I would call a good either departing or arriving location, sure both have been in AE since the start, why are they so low in revenue like RNO the 2nd largest gaming location in Nevada should have a much larger PAX than the game is gererating. (Miller will be looking into it)

It is good that you come up with these routes, as it is your views and with my testing that Miller will make notes and come the next round of Sim2 we may have these little issues sorted out.

[flightsimer]

i didnt try to put the 787 on that route, if you reread my post i was asking about the amount of money for a route that would of used the 787, but the route i was trying to set up was with the 737-700, which is just barely bigger than the a319 and has a few dollars increase in opp. costs. but still cant get anything... even tried a crj but no luck.

[AirFitch]

Travel...I think you're missing the point.......

When you research a route it tells you that you are gonna make x amount of money....so you set it up..when you do that in reality you're actually making
-x amount of money.........

As Miller has already stated in this thread there is defintely something wrong as the Research results should be carrying over to the Actual Route.....and they aren't..in any way shape or form.....

You seem to be ignoring the Research and are instead trying to justify why he isn't making any money on the route.......Which is irrelevant to our argument.......We want to know why the Research tool says one thing and the Actual route setup is at a completely different end of the Spectrum......


I'm not trying to be an Ass here....but I honestly think you're not understanding what we're saying here......

[travelhouse]

Travel...I think you're missing the point.......

When you research a route it tells you that you are gonna make x amount of money....so you set it up..when you do that in reality you're actually making
-x amount of money.........

As Miller has already stated in this thread there is defintely something wrong as the Research results should be carrying over to the Actual Route.....and they aren't..in any way shape or form.....

You seem to be ignoring the Research and are instead trying to justify why he isn't making any money on the route.......Which is irrelevant to our argument.......We want to know why the Research tool says one thing and the Actual route setup is at a completely different end of the Spectrum......


I'm not trying to be an Ass here....but I honestly think you're not understanding what we're saying here......

I understand your view; however, I am correct in my reply.

It doesn’t matter if you perform a before placing or obtaining gates research of a route, or if you have the gates and enter the game and try to set the route and notice before you hit the update route, both are going to give you the same result.

From high profile locations, like for example:

JFK / ORD / ALT / MCO / LAX / SFO / IAD / IAH / LAS / LHR / CDG / FRA/ LGW / HND / HKG / SIN and so on, with give you if you do the before hand research or on the route research, a good guide to exactly within +5- %

However, there are a number of other locations that in real life would command a high DOP, but for some reason in this game, they lack this revenue, thus these locations if you do a before or after research like I said above, once you do set this route the +5- % factor is thrown out the window.

Therefore, the original Q? of why does this route say I will make $100k and I buy the gates and aircraft, setup this route and I find that all I get is a Negitive or just a few $$ for all my trouble.

Try it on those high value locations, before and after, you will see that a lot of gates in Sim2 just are not performing the way they should. Like my reply post, RNO is large, 2nd largest in gaming, large internal PAX and if you have a Hub in place at say SFO you should be able to bring up the connecting PAX and the overall price of the route in $$$$, but its not happening. In Sim1, you can make big bucks from SFO / RN or even SAN to RNO not in Sim2 :puzzled:

In the actual routes or the research function both will calculate the capacity / PAX / Ticket Price / Number of Legs and type of Aircraft you use plus take into account the others on this route before you setup this route, this is the beauty of the new LF script, so if Miller is able to look into why the larger locations in real life, just aren’t performing within Sim2, this will be the best game ever.

The auto-pricing feature is there to assist those who are not able to be on-line 24/7, I have not logged into my account for a long period and found that I do not suffer, the fate of what we had in past rounds of the game, a massive loss in DOP, but during my research I did notice some players have set routes manual and if you look at their accounts / balance sheet days later they have a massive loss. One would advise to only set auto pricing.

Sim2 is a Miller - Testing Sim, we can only report what we find and Miller will as time goes, get this testing sim into a fully working on-line game.

Hope you can understand what I am explaining.

[MedicManGNV]

This is all pretty interesting! What's somewhat dishearting about all of this trial and error with an attempt to make a profit is that it can be financially stressing for small airline companies with relatively little working capital. I've lost millions in gate administration fees due to the relative wonkiness of the route system. Its kind of amusing when i look at some major cities in the game and see they are a ghost town with no air service! Can you imagine? No air service into or out of Reno, Nevada! LOL....well, the only up side to that would be for Greyhound, hehe...they'd have to add buses to their service to get the people there.....I think I'd suggest that gate admin fees and leasing fees occur a single game day later rather than being instantaneous. This would allow some time to cancel the gate purchase if you simply cant make a profit at that city to any of your connecting cities. This would be more financially fair to airlines that are just entering the game and have marginal working capital. They shouldn't have to spend that money on a trial and error basis, in my opinion.

[JayP]

I continue to notice this problem. For example, I researched Chicago to Richmond with an EMB 190 LR (104 passengers), 4 flights, autopricing. Market research shows revenues of $363,000 and a load factor of 92.1%. When I actually set up the route I got -$54,000! I've tried the research with many different city pairs and receive equally incorrect results.

As Miller stated earlier:

Hmmm. When I coded this feature, I wanted to get it to equal the DOP if you were to open the route, so something isn't right. I'll have a good look at the research script to see if I can find where it's coming up with different values than the script that runs when you open a route. They're all running off of the same LF script, so I'm a bit confused as to why this would be happening.

Does anyone know if this is an ongoing project to fix?

Thanks.

[flightsimer]

i havent once used the researcher this round yet, to me its just a waste of time... i just get the large airports then will add in some of the smaller ones to my destinations but will serve them with smaller aircraft... maybe try using a erj-135/140/or 145 on that route and lowering the freq... yes you shouldnt have to but at this time thats really all u can do about it...

[Maestro69]

Does anyone know if this is an ongoing project to fix?

Thanks.

Still should be. But Miller's wife recently gave birth, so give Miller some time to get back to AE issues. Im sure he is more than enjoy life at the moment with the birth of the baby.

[LostEthics]

Well, maybe not directly related to research but, how is it that a route may be operated by an aircraft(A330-300) yet I can't operate the fastest A330-300 on a shorter route? I can't even operate the same route as they have. (Plenty of gates, full 22 hours on the bird, so I can't see why I can't operate it.)
Is it possible to give the ol' girls a boost or some extra thrust?

[flightsimer]

only things i can think of that prevent routes are:
A) dont have enought slots
aircraft doesnt have enough time
C) it might same the name with another airport, and u bought gates at the wrong on... like portland and portland...
D) airport might be mapped at the wrong location...

as too ur problem... wonder if its one of the ghost planes...

[LostEthics]

The problem seems to be, my aircraft can't do the route return in enough time yet the same aircraft for another airline can. (I have the fastest engines) maybe I'm missing out on something else? :puzzled: