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[NEW] Adjust min. runway lengths for some jet aircraft to fly out of SDU


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#1
Erion

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Hello

In the past i've requested that the short field performance versions of the Boeing 737-800 and Airbus A320 be added as those types are operated IRL out of Santos Dumont airport. That request was denied as this modification, mechanically, would work more like an addon (like winglets) than a stand-alone aircraft model, and was postponed to AE4 if when it happens.

So, my request is can we adjust the required runway of some existing jet aircraft (on the smaller side) so we can have some viable jet-powered options for most of the jet era? Even if this game has historically adhered to hard and precise data, the fact that AE4 is still a distant dream, and the fact that the game has the aforementioned limitations, i think we should be able to tweak some aircraft data to fit some real world uses, if only for some aircraft and not all (i.e. 737-7 and not -8). I'll list which ones and a justification for each below:


# Airbus #

 

- A220 family: Are we sure not even the A220-100, being a relatively light regional jet, can use 4,341ft to take-off and land? I'll leave the -300 version out as it is the bigger version.
- All A318s and A319s can already use SDU, even the A319neo, so we're safe here. I'm leaving the A320 proper out as its larger.

# Boeing #

- 737 family: The -700 version is the only 737 that can use SDU as of now, most of its engine options allow for very short runways. But what about the -300 which is about the same size and weight? What about the -500 and -600 which are even smaller? And for the OG 737s, the -200Adv is already sooo close to the required runway, i feel a slight adjustment wouldnt hurt. I'm leaving the -400/800 out as they're larger, and the -100 because being somewhat still a prototype, it could've be underpowered or something to require almost 7k feet for take-off. Also, at least the MAX 7 should be able to use it, since the -700 non-ER can already.

# Douglas/MD #

- DC-9 family: The DC-9-20 is the only version of all this family that can already use SDU, both engine options allow it... Do we know why its range is so much shorter than the same-sized -10 version? The -30 version is not much larger, it is even smaller than the A319 and 737-700 that can already use the airport, i think either this one, or the -40 (as it was mainly used with SAS, that was the one responsible or "creating" the -20 version). should also be considered. As for the more recent MDs, i'm thinking of the MD-87 and the Boeing 717 (MD-95) as those are the smaller, modern versions.

# Embraer #

- ERJ family: None of these relatively light regional jets can use SDU, although some come very close. The ERJ-140ER (only ER and LR versions for this family, i consider longer ranger versions to be heavier and therefore it is justifiable that they'd require more runway length) has a shorter required runway than the 135ER which is smaller. I do think all 3 versions (135, 140 and 145) should be able to use SDU, but i'd be okay with the 135 and/or 140.

- E-Jet family: Again, none of then can use SDU, only the 170STD comes so very close at 4.369ft. Azul uses the E-195 out of SDU regularly and i dont know if it has a SFP separate package, so i'm not sure i want to leave all the family out (limiting it to the STD version and not the LR versions would be ok tho)

# Bombardier #

- CRJ family: The CRJ-700 standard is another plane that comes so close to being able to operate at SDU, with 4,361ft required. Maybe this one and also the 550, which is a bit smaller, could be tweaked?

- E-Jet E2 family: This one is interesting because only the 195E2, the larger of the 2 currently available, are able to use SDU with PW1926G engines. I reckon the 190E2 should be able too?

I've also taken a look at Soviet/Russian planes. I think one of the beauties of this game is being able to use these aircraft in western airlines whenever we want.

# Tupolev #

- Tu-334: This is the only one i think is light enough to realistically operate out of SDU, even tho it remained as a prototype and never went into production. I also find funny that the Tu-204-100 with RB211-535E4B engines is *almost* able to land there, with 4.666ft required. This thing is basically a 757 in size and weight. We also already have the very early Tu-104 available to use on SDU.

# Antonov #

- An-148: Again, this is a relatively light and small regional jet. It should be able to land on shorter runways. The An-74 is the only Antonov jet able to do that, but it was build specifically as a STOL aircraft.

# Sukhoi #

- SJ 100-95 (non-LR): Another small regional jet...

This would be all. We have some regional jet options like the Do-228 JET and the BAe-146/Avro RJ, but i feel very limited in this regard. I'd argue that even tho real, hard and precise data for aircraft perfomance is the ideal benchmark, the fact that some models are able to use this airport on a regular basis despite their data saying otherwise is a good enough justification to "game" things a bit so we can have some fun.

Thanks in advance :D :D :D



#2
MrTrash

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Please post sources. 



#3
አርጄ

አርጄ

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I don't think we need sources for this one, when you look at real world flight schedules, it should explain enough. When you look at SDU, you'll see the 737-800 (The 737-800 SHort Field Package especially), A320(neo) and E195 are all scheduled at the airport too. Most of these planes have the capability to take off from shorter distances in real life...but not in the game. I think most of runway lengths in-game are based on take off rolls when the aircraft is at its heaviest, which is quite bothersome. Because why can't a 777-300ER land at Dublin, but a 777-300(non-ER) can?

 

I think we need to use the min. runway usage or the average runway usage.



#4
Erion

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Please post sources. 

 

Since i'm dealing with existing data for existing aircraft, i'll just post pictures and videos of SDU in real life (along with links for where i got then, some are in portuguese):

Azul E-195 and ATRs, Avianca A318 and TAM A319s (A320 flights started in 2019)
Link: https://www.aeroflap...letes-80-years/
6afcba74-ea0e-46fc-b746-b3105f06d834.jpe

Latam A320neo (Latam does not have A319neos) and Gol 737s
https://aeromagazine...75-em-maio.html
aeroporto-santos-dumont-infraero.jpeg


Gol 737-800, Azul E-Jets and TAM A319s (A320 flights started in 2019)

Link: https://agenciainfra...amento-de-2023/
aeroporto-santos-dumont-foto-infraero-10


In the 90s: 737-300s and 500s (Varig, Vasp with 300s and Rio-Sul with 500s), Fokker 100s (TAM) and ERJ-145s (Rio-Sul):
Link: https://www.archdail...-milton-roberto
Vista_Aerea__via.jpg?1380490193

Other links (Portuguese, about the 737max (Gol only have Max 8 in its fleet naturally), A320ceo from Latam and Embraer E2s)

https://aeromagazine...do-737-max.html
https://www.asagol.c...o-santos-dumont
https://aeromagazine...tos-dumont.html
https://aeroin.net/a...s-dumont-latam/

Some recent videos:






https://www.youtube....rts/TYhK8Jw4ti0
https://www.youtube....rts/4hMSMsNEJH0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3T2LTPY2frQ

Some older videos (80s to 2000s)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1PaUIUDCQc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9aIRiTRuIE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WICXGWCFGwc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meAz3QKFu64
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWAS3W5iuCU
https://www.youtube....rts/fJZhm-2acnE
 

 

I don't think we need sources for this one, when you look at real world flight schedules, it should explain enough. When you look at SDU, you'll see the 737-800 (The 737-800 SHort Field Package especially), A320(neo) and E195 are all scheduled at the airport too. Most of these planes have the capability to take off from shorter distances in real life...but not in the game. I think most of runway lengths in-game are based on take off rolls when the aircraft is at its heaviest, which is quite bothersome. Because why can't a 777-300ER land at Dublin, but a 777-300(non-ER) can?

 

I think we need to use the min. runway usage or the average runway usage.

This. The way AE handles runway usage is if the aircraft always took off with max fuel and passengers, when even if the game lacks weight simulation (as affected by load), i think we could still simulate range restrictions from some airports, like SDU. I know, for example, LGA is politically restricted for foreign flights (i tried flying there from Brazil in R1) so the same mechanic could be used for small but busy airports like SDU, CGH, LCY, among others, while switching from absolute max load take off length to something average...

Or just tweaking the values for the short SDU runway, as its probably the shortest runway used in a main airport anywhere in the world, it ends up benefitting everywhere else.

Also, to reinforce, pics, videos and links i provided shows regular 737-800 and A320 operations in SDU, while i'm requesting that planes only up to the size/weight of 737-700s and A319s be adjusted to fit this airport.






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