31 replies to this topic

[Stevphfeniey]

99% of experts in the field say it's happening. Many link it to man's burning of fossil fuels. Others outright deny its existence (for some reason).

Let me start out with this thought: If Man inherited the earth from God, why wouldn't he have to take care of it?

[hayhaa]

climate change is just a government conspiracy 

[Chubby Bear]

I would say it depends on how you look at the situation, In some natural events I would say yes we can blame it on Climate change but others are just natural, end of story. There seems to be enough evidence in most cases to support that CLimate change exists. I am sitting on the fence with this one.

[Stevphfeniey]

I would say it depends on how you look at the situation, In some natural events I would say yes we can blame it on Climate change but others are just natural, end of story. There seems to be enough evidence in most cases to support that CLimate change exists. I am sitting on the fence with this one.

 

Most things you could call "natural" are simply nature adapting to human caused climate change. There are relatively warm periods in Earth's climate, but it's hard to ignore a severe uptick in atmospheric CO2 and other known greenhouse gasses corresponding with the mass burning of fossil fuels in the 19th century. On top of that, CO2 that comes from natural sources (i.e.: volcanoes) has a completely different signature than CO2 released by human activity. Our chemical fingerprints are all over this case so to simply deny its existence or be sitting on the fence on this issue is simply demonstrating a lack of understanding on the subject. 

 

That said, I don't expect every single man, woman and child on Earth to have an intrinsic understanding of climate science, that's what we have experts in the field for. What I'm confused about is people don't seem to understand that aside from solar energy, Earth is a closed and incredibly interconnected loop. On top of this people demonstrate a wanton disregard of just how special Earth is in the universe, because as far as we know there is only one Earth and for now, we only have one home. Why people simply ignore the evidence and warnings and continue to pave over our garden is way beyond me. 

[SirMoo]

Why people simply ignore the evidence and warnings and continue to pave over our garden is way beyond me. 

[hayhaa]

yes but keper space telescope is discovering alien planets thougj

[Adam.Bomb]

As a christian I would say God gave us dominion over the earth. So from my point of view there is no ethical issue with what we are doing. Its more of a practical issue for me. I am not a climate change denier. In fact the majority of the people in the environmental movement are the deniers. First off for believing the fear mongering and doomsday ideas. The earth has been hotter than this before. The issue is the rate at which the Ozone is being filled with these gases, eventually in MORE THAN 2 centuries we will see the effects. Case and point is Al Gores bulshit. Now on another point, NITRUS OXIDE  is the real culprit, the energy sector and transportation don't even closely rival the environmental impacts of the agri giant. I am a vegan and I hate the entire system. The real issue is agriculture in every single one of the environmental issues facing us today (and irresponsible fishing). I bet you thought you would never hear this come out "a filthy conservatives" mouth but its just did.

[Stevphfeniey]

yes but keper space telescope is discovering alien planets thougj

Do you know how long it would take to even go to the closest star system to ours? And as far as we know none of them are confirmed to be habitable, or even close to habitable.

Your line of thinking is probably the worst to have: "There are other Earths out there, so we can **** this one up and just move on to the next".

[hayhaa]

ok lets wait till the james webb telescope gets launched and then we can analyze the composition of a planets atmposhere so we know if it has life

[TNT88]

As an Ex-Christian. You could go to China to enjoy Climate Change 

[zipp]

I am a vegan

Lets play a game. It's called spot the Vegan

[TNT88]

^I'm not vegan but that one looks nasty. I prefer Panda Express:

 

[zipp]

Look at that marbling

[TNT88]

Here, some korean crunchy pork fat  It's blowing up all around here in Jakarta alongside K-pop. Hopefully it doesn't contribute much to the pollution here:

 

[Stevphfeniey]

Adam, while I'm appreciating your concern for NO2 emissions from agriculture (and believe me I am very concerned about things like fertilizer runoff creating dead zones in the ocean), you can't just ignore parts of a problem you happen to not agree with. That's what makes climate change the most difficult problem Mankind will solve.

Again, the Earth is a closed system. While it's capable of naturally processing most pollutants, the problem is that we're emitting more pollutants than nature can handle. The system is being overloaded.

Looking at climate change as a disruption in Earth's system caused by man is really how it begins to make sense. And since we all live in Earth's natural system, we will all be affected.

I'm not preaching doom and gloom for planet Earth, because history does show that Earth has gone through many forms and come out just fine. What's at stake is our livelihoods, the homes of billions, and a secure future for generations to come.

[hayhaa]

cant we just terraform mars and liv there

[Adam.Bomb]

We can find common ground in a lot of what you just said Stev. I just think the economic effects of most of these environmental zealots will do more harm and cause more hurt right here and now. Its our responsibility to look at what we can fix without destroying the worlds economy. Right now we could cut ALL co2 emissions by the transportation and energy sectors. Guess what? It wouldn't even make a dent. Especially here in the western world, there isn't much we can do. I admire Europe's initiative especially, but the sad thing is they are hurting themselves necessarily, by the end of the next two decades their changes won't even help by a tenth of a degree. Granted if all countries including India and China cut their emissions to the degree the UNITED STATES HAS by 2120 it would decrease world tempature by 3/4 of a degree. In fact no one has cut as much emissions per capita as the United States. So people criticize people like me that say WE HAVE DONE OUR PART and that we don't need to gut our industries for such a unsound cause. I love the idea of doing everything we can, but in all reality what we do doesn't do s***. We must take AGRI-BUSINESS head on and find ways to significantly lower our share of the biomass. Us and animals we own make up 99% of the worlds biomass. If you REALLY want to help change THAT.

[dieseltu]

All Scientist know Volcanoes create climate change.     In one day,  what man does in one year.    So we are irrelevant.  In another 14,000 years a heat wave will wipe out a crap load of useless eaters. Then another ice wave will come. And we will be cold as  a a witches tit.    Furthermore   in about 5 million years   The sun will run out of hydrogen.  And lose gravity,  And      Eventually the sun will  swell and wipe out earth.      And that's the end. In the mean time.  We don't need another tax scam to be used to finance the industrialisation of Africa.  Because thats what everyone wants the climate change money for.     The American people are  sick of paying for everyone's scamming thieving Horse crap.   Because in South China it snowed the first time in 40 years. And NASA is a bunch of lying thieving government pawns.    Carry your own weight, pay for your own crap.  

[Stevphfeniey]

hayhaa, Adam, dieseltu i want to thank you. I want to thank you for providing an excellent example of denying climate change is borne out of sheer ignorance and a disturbing amount of straight nihilism, because you've just demonstrated a vast amount of it across a broad range of topics. So let me just start from the top.

 

Even the most out there, absolutely insanely fast and unrealistic estimates of terraforming Mars, or even just raising Mars's surface temperature to something a little more comfortable, will take around a thousand years. This is ignoring other factors such as Mars's lack of a magnetic field, so any atmosphere we could create on it would be stripped away over time assuming no replenishment. And at a point it becomes more feasible to just build any settlement on Mars underground, as opposed to terraforming. 

 

Yes, the United States has lead the way with cutting per capita emissions. But it still ranks among the highest in the world in that field, with 42% of total electrical energy generation coming from coal, and almost all other sectors relying on oil and natural gas to supply their energy needs. Never mind total coal, oil and natural gas consumption across the globe. We have done our part, but there is still a lot more to be done and now is not the time to just drop the ball because we think we've done enough.

 

A common complaint from developing countries (who yes, do in fact matter) is essentially that if we're not doing anything, why should they? I believe it was Reagan who invoked the City on the Hill analogy to describe America's place in the world. We must lead by example by continuing to push the boundaries towards a cleaner humanity that is more in harmony with the Earth which is our home. We must lead the way by demonstrating not only our ability to transform our infrastructure and economy, but also that we are willing to assist the rest of humanity towards that goal. We have demonstrated that we're more than willing to pour huge sums of money into other countries for the sake of infrastructure development (although it could be interpreted that the Marshall Plan was essentially bribing Europe to be on our side). We need a 21st Century Marshall Plan to help construct a global green infrastructure. 

 

And yes, doing everything we can right now will only limit warming, let alone being the process of cooling the planet back down to pre-industrial levels. But just because we only see numbers like 3/4ths of a degree of cooling doesn't mean that 3/4ths of a degree won't make a large impact across the globe. 

 

And Adam, quick fact check, just humans (not associated domesticated animals) make up 1/10,000th of the total biomass on Earth, with the overwhelming (over 99%) being microbial life, which (you may be surprised) matters a lot more than we do. 

 

As I have already pointed out in this topic, emissions from volcanoes have a completely different chemical signature than emissions from human activity. You can actually physically test this if you're willing to make the trek to your nearest active volcano, collect a sample of the air near the caldera, then compare than to the air coming out of your car's tailpipe. You'll find that their chemical makeups are, while similar in some respects, completely different. 

 

I won't even address the sun expanding and engulfing Earth in 5 million years claim, because your estimate is not even close to correct. Or your haymaker against NASA, what I view as the only government agency that has accomplished anything worth looking up to.

 

Your arguments (if I can even call them that) are all rooted in nihilism. That one day everyone will be dead and it doesn't matter, and because of that what's the point in doing anything. Did anybody teach you to not be selfish? To look beyond yourself and your needs? Did anybody teach you to solve problems? Because it's rooted in our DNA to solve great challenges, and honestly just giving up because something is hard makes you a terrible excuse for a human being.

[hayhaa]

no i believe that climate change is real but I think it's inevitable so we have to look outwards