100 replies to this topic

[TheGreatOP]

As a reminder to all in this thread, when calculating exactly how profitable a plane will be relative to other planes, one must factor in depreciation rate, price, speed, range, minimum runway length etc. and not just fuel flow + seats. Also, the TSFC is more helpful as a comparison factor than the pure fuel flow.

[konj1]

Well, it's true that it's more expensive, but since this is AE, 60 million dollar difference in price is paid off by a 777-300 in 2-3 months in service with an average DOP.

 

Since the topic is profit of a single plane, I'm still pretty sure 773 is the most profitable single-deck.

 

Nevertheless, I agree that ordering A330-300 makes more sense, if you're not getting as many as you can and order both, A330 should be the first choice. By the way, I always wonder why so many people here order so many A340s, longer range doesn't make up for their fuel consumption and turn time, and most people send them on a lot of routes that would more economically be served by A330... On most continents the ratio should be at least 2:1 in favor of A330, but I guess this is "easier" this way instead of thinking about different routes, that's the same story as with the small 747SP instead of 747-200, which makes even less sense.

[TheGreatOP]

Well, it's true that it's more expensive, but since this is AE, 60 million dollar difference in price is paid off by a 777-300 in 2-3 months in service with an average DOP.

 

Since the topic is profit of a single plane, I'm still pretty sure 773 is the most profitable single-deck.

 

Nevertheless, I agree that ordering A330-300 makes more sense if you're not getting as many as you can and order both A330 should be the first choice. By the way, I always wonder why so many people here order so many A340s, longer range doesn't make up for their fuel consumption and turn time, and most people send them on a lot of routes that would more economically be served by A330... On most continents the ratio should be at least 2:1 in favor of A330, but I guess this is "easier" instead of thinking about different routes, that's the same story as with the small 747SP instead of 747-200, which makes even less sense.

Well at least the 747SP has the price, fuel flow and speed advantage over the 747-200. A340s are over 21% more expensive and while they have better fuel consumption in AE (differing from real life), their longer turn time and slightly slower speed effectively makes the A330s much more profitable.

 

I agree with what you say, but it's worth noticing that the 777-300's higher price does not just translate to a higher capital cost, but also extra maintenance and depreciation costs. And also it's a 70 million difference in cost. 

[TNT88]

A380 would be more profitable than B777-300 because it got more speed, more passengers capacity, and the capability to land on smaller airport. (B777-300 require a very long runway)

[Tesla]

A380 would be more profitable than B777-300 because it got more speed, more passengers capacity, and the capability to land on smaller airport. (B777-300 require a very long runway)

7800 ft takeoff requirement for A380 is wrong. It should be very similar to the 777-300. Also, A380 cost almost double a 777-300 and use close to 1.7 times the amount. Both are highly profitable even with very low-density configurations.

[TNT88]

7800 ft takeoff requirement for A380 is wrong. It should be very similar to the 777-300. Also, A380 cost almost double a 777-300 and use close to 1.7 times the amount. Both are highly profitable even with very low-density configurations.

"It's a game" - Tnt88

[Coco X]

Actually, I've managed with a concorde before but only just, and once upon a time I had a small airline called Athena Air and between the Greek islands I did make a substantial amount operating P.180 Avantis with 9 seats.

[Max Devo]

Actually, I've managed with a Concorde before but only just

 

So have I. The trick is to set it on one route and one route only, preferably one with high Y demand. Scam IFS helps too. I was able to make roughly $2.8 million per month with a fleet of three.

[Chubby Bear]

I too have had a fleet of about 20 concords running main trunk routes on a business class only configuration with scam ifs, I even made a decent profit from it. But I dare not touch the TU-144

[Max Devo]

I dare not touch the TU-144

 
Who would?

[dazwalsh]

Fokker 100 is a good aircraft too, plonked them on uk regional routes and they outperform a lot of my European 737's

[TNT88]

Fokker 100 is a good aircraft too, plonked them on uk regional routes and they outperform a lot of my European 737's

It's one of the worst in terms of fuel consumption, speed, and capacity.

[Tesla]

If you are far enough into a world, the CSeries aircraft are absolutely outstanding workhorses. My current lower-cost luxury airline is operating only CSeries aircraft with a profit margin around 23%! Most routes operate at markups of around 120-130%!

[Flanco Air Enterprises]

737-300 when starting out. Once you have ~50M leasing new and used 737-800's is great. I rocketed to success with these planes on all American regional routes(and Toronto) DC9-40 is good too.

[konj1]

Fokker 100 is a good aircraft too, plonked them on uk regional routes and they outperform a lot of my European 737's

The funny looking AvroRJ100 is much better regional jet of that time in AE, much better fuel economy and also slightly better range. And also if you want to down-size in the same family (usually makes little economical sense, but it's fun from time to time), RJ85 and RJ70 are infinitely more economical and useful than F70.

 

F100's performance is more comparable to Yak-42 than AvroRJ. Order if you want to flood the market but it shouldn't be the first choice. I wouldn't call them "worst" since there wasn't much more choice, and there are planes with much worse performance, they can be somewhat solid and profitable equipment, but if you can get enough of 737-300s or AvroRJ100s, no need to buy Fokker.

[konj1]

By the way, cruise speeds of both BAe146/Avro RJ and Fokker 100/70 are almost 500 mph (as far as I can find 497 or 498 mph) and you can easily see them flying at those speeds at fr24, so they should both be a bit more efficient, data is incorrect.

[Howler]

Well at least the 747SP has the price, fuel flow and speed advantage over the 747-200. A340s are over 21% more expensive and while they have better fuel consumption in AE (differing from real life), their longer turn time and slightly slower speed effectively makes the A330s much more profitable.

 

I agree with what you say, but it's worth noticing that the 777-300's higher price does not just translate to a higher capital cost, but also extra maintenance and depreciation costs. And also it's a 70 million difference in cost. 

 

I think you are double-counting the price/depreciation in your mental calculation. 

 

When you purchase an airplane, your cash on hand goes down by the amount you've just paid.  But the depreciation doesn't impact your cash.

 

When you purchase an airplane, your airline's valuation does not change.  But your airline's valuation goes down over time by the plane's depreciation.

 

Eventually those two numbers converge, and so you should really only consider one or the other of those numbers.

[Jarkii]

In r1 right now:

 

A300B4

747-100

HS Trident 1B

TU-114

L-1011

[TheGreatOP]

I think you are double-counting the price/depreciation in your mental calculation. 

 

When you purchase an airplane, your cash on hand goes down by the amount you've just paid.  But the depreciation doesn't impact your cash.

 

When you purchase an airplane, your airline's valuation does not change.  But your airline's valuation goes down over time by the plane's depreciation.

 

Eventually those two numbers converge, and so you should really only consider one or the other of those numbers.

I said maintenance & depreciation, not price & depreciation.

[AirfoxINT]

I operate about 73 planes. Every single one of them is profitable by at least $3,000,000.

 

The planes I fly are:

Airbus A320s

Airbus A300-600

Airbus A300-600R

Airbus A340-300

BAe Systems ATP

McDonnel Douglas MD-80/81/82/83/87/88.