26 replies to this topic

[andersona1]

I wanted to recommend start-up requirements before someone could fly international routes. I may be wrong, and completely ok with that thought, but most airlines don't just start as an international service. They tend to have years of prior domestic service and then move on to begin international service. While I am in the USA, I see examples like Southwest, and JetBlue. They both are domestic airlines with international service barely starting in the last year.

 

My thought is a requirement be met before an airline is able to fly an international route. That requirement might be a few years of domestic service, or a set number of destinations served. I think International Travel racks up profits quickly due to demand than say a small 140y demand route that is 500 miles away.

 

Now I know there are airports/countries that require this to be waived due to country size and what not, Dubai, Cuba, Puerto Rico, but for the two later maybe it could be made a regional thing, like Central American. I think this would be more realistic.

[chuckmorris]

Silver Airways started international routes only 4 months after starting operations.

 

(It was from FLL to the Bahamas, but still)

[Will101]

I believe only India (but I may be horribly wrong) have restrictions on when you can start international flights. Other than that I think it's up to the airline to when they want to start whatever services they want. 

 

And SWA and JBU would have only just started internationals because of their markets, both airlines have been serving the US Domestic market by choice rather than being forced to do so. 

[Med.]

I think you should research which countries have such policies. Otherwise, I don't see why an airline can't fly internationally right away.

[andersona1]

Again, just a note about my thoughts.

 

I may be wrong, and completely ok with that thought, but most airlines don't just start as an international service.

 

I just noted those two by example also. Virgin America is another example, and thats just in the United States.

 

I'm just trying to provide a real world experience for this game. Truthfully not until the mid 70's and greater on into the 2000's did International travel actually become a major thing. And really in the last 15 years has globalization been a major thing that actually is the reason for international travel.

 

So maybe instead of limiting like I stated, maybe have a more realistic view of passenger travel for international routes? Like a flight to China or India during the "dot-com" burst of the end of the 90's and beginning of 00's would be greater traveled because of the nature of the "world events"

 

Again just my thoughts, and this really is just a game, but I like life like when I play.

[Hake.]

A domestic network in Ireland? Seems legit. Just remember, while you can name domestic carriers I can give you 4 words: Ryanair Aer Lingus easyJet (AFAIK). Off the top of my head, 3 airlines which had international service straight away.

[Will101]

EZY started domestic with LTN-EDI/GLA, they took a year to open LTN-AMS. 

RYR started WAT-LTN, which could be classed as semi-domestic I guess?

EI started with a very early version of DUB-BRS, which would take the same case as the RYR flights. (and the fact Aer Lingus started in 1936 and Ireland wasn't recognised until 1949)

 

However other examples that are very much against the domestic starts, Turkish Airlines started with Ankara-Istanbul-Athens. 

KLM started with Amsterdam - London 

SAS' earliest counterpart (Danish Airlines) started with Copenhagen - Malmo

 

So yeah, basically the domestic start idea is total bs

[Syllei'Anor]

the only problem with this idea is that if the world starts before the year 2000 many of the eurpean countries would be imposible to use as starting countrie, as they are just too small to be able to do anything profit wise in, and so large airports like Heathrow would become completly unusable in politicaly restricted worlds, and in non restricted worlds this rule would have no effect, as people could just have lots of different countries preforming domestic flights.

 

This not too say the idea is stupid or anything, it is just to outline some porblems i see with it, if you can solve these problems i see no reason that it should not make the game worlds it is used on more stratigic, and reduce the unrealistic use of the largest planes by week old airlines flying half way around the world producing 1-2 million dollars per airplane.

[andersona1]

I think with Europe it would be considered almost its own country. I looked at a few of the startups based in Europe (EasyJet's 3 route was a non-UK based route, and Ryanair started with Ireland to UK. See Wikipedia) I think other countries would have this same "issue" Like Cuba and Costa Rica. But in reality these countries would have flights that woudl be based within the Latin American or American routes before being based on a full 8000 mile route.

[Kirkland]

It's not just Europe..

[Jet]

Singapore and Virgin Atlantic were and are international flights only, along with Cathay Pacific

[andersona1]

I know its not just Europe....

 

I think other countries would have this same "issue" Like Cuba and Costa Rica.

 

There are countries that depend on the international travel, like the Dubai airport, and Africa. But again Africa I believe for the most part is traveled within the African Continent. (http://www.airlinero...m/maps/Rwandair, http://www.airlinero...eroon_Airlines, http://www.airlinero...rinou_Airlines) Again these are just examples. While each region has some "specifics" to it, the reality is that most Airlines don't start a direct international flight 5000-8000 miles away. This would be irresponsible as the ability to market in two completely foreign destiations would require MASSIVE amounts of money. Like 4-5 times what our "Marketing" budget is in this sim.

 

A great example of an International Startup that is actually doing what I am trying to explain is Emirates. Emirates Airline for example was started in Dubai with regional international flights. Not flights flying from Dubai to Sydney that would bring in massive profits. They then added service to other Regional Destinations. (http://en.wikipedia....85.E2.80.931992)

[andersona1]

Singapore Airlines and Cahtay Pacific started as a regional international carrier (Kuala Lumpar and Manila were the starting flights respectively) and expanded to what they are now. Vergin Operated to the Eastern US and some outlying areas.

 

Also ETOPS is a certifcation that a COMPANY must recieve from some governments. The US is one example of that. Not trying to get so technical that the game is too hard to play, but also trying to make this simulation more realistic to what actually takes place.

[Hake.]

Singapore and Virgin Atlantic were and are international flights only, along with Cathay Pacific

Virgin are internal too now

[Kirkland]

Players can do whatever they want anyway, and I seriously doubt AE will implement a rule like this that isn't even in real life

[andersona1]

Its not a rule in real life, but the merrits of which have been detailed in this thread as noted with the backup to help show why and how this is a theoretical idea that should be implemented in order to make this simulation more life like. In reality if it is not implemented, in the fashion that I have discussed, it should be implemented in a fashion that marketing such routes are more costly, probably 2-3 times more, than marketing to a domestic/regional audience. Also the cost of training employees is increased because you have to train employees in different languages, and provide correct translations and such. These are technicalities but ones I think would help better the simulation so that those who wish to play as though it is real life, have the ability to without those that wish to just try and be the #1 in the game at a cost of reality.

 

If you would be so kind as to provide examples of how things aren't the way I describe that would be awesome.

[chuckmorris]

If you would be so kind as to provide examples of how things aren't the way I describe that would be awesome.

Haven't we given some already?

[andersona1]

Haven't we given some already?

 

I was refering to the user who kept commenting with vague statements and no backup.

 

And Silver Airways actually started in the mid 80's as a commuter AirTaxi, and transitioned to an Airline in the mid 90's, and they provide REGIONAL International Service.

 

Again I am not saying that All Immediate International Service is not they way that an Airline starts, I am saying that the long haul flights that are consistently seen in the beginning stages of the simulation provide for an unrealistic approach to the game. You do not see a company starting with immediate service from New York to Tokyo, but this game does that.

[chuckmorris]

I was refering to the user who kept commenting with vague statements and no backup.

 

And Silver Airways actually started in the mid 80's as a commuter AirTaxi, and transitioned to an Airline in the mid 90's, and they provide REGIONAL International Service.

 

Again I am not saying that All Immediate International Service is not they way that an Airline starts, I am saying that the long haul flights that are consistently seen in the beginning stages of the simulation provide for an unrealistic approach to the game. You do not see a company starting with immediate service from New York to Tokyo, but this game does that.

I like the idea of restricting long haul flights, but not international flights. 

[andersona1]

I like the idea of restricting long haul flights, but not international flights. 

 

Maybe thats how I should have worded it then. Haha. I totally understand that some countries just aren't capable of handling just domestic airlines.