11 replies to this topic

[Exodus]

Currently, we all lease gates with 50 weekly slots per gate. Wether you use those slots for a 747 or for a ATR-42, that doesn't matter in AE3.2. 

 

Instead of using gate slots, wouldn't it be better to use gate minutes ? Each aircraft already has a turnaround time in AE, so we could use that as gate time. Each gate has about 10.000 gate minutes per week (60 min/hr = 1.440 min/day = 10.080 min/week). So an airport would then have 10.080 gate minutes per week multiplied by the number of gates at the airport. These could then possibly be rented in multitudes of 1.000 gate minutes.

 

Renting 1.000 minutes would give the following scenario :
ATR-42-200, 20 minute turn-around, 50 flights per 1.000 gate minutes,

Airbus A320-200, 35 minute turn-around, 28 flights per 1.000 gate minutes,

Boeing 767-300ER, 65 minute turn-around, 15 flights per 1.000 gate minutes,

Airbus A340-300, 90 minute turn-around, 11 flights per 1.000 gate minutes,

Boeing 747-400D, 140 minute turn-around, 7 flights per 1.000 gate minutes.

 

If you ask me, this would be a very simple way of adding a factor to the game that makes it a bit more realistic while at the same time making the game that bit more challenging, as choice of aircraft type on certain routes will become important too.

 

Let me know what you think !

 

Grtz.

[howard]

i like it... anything that makes AE more realistic

[Yuxi]

Have you thought of how timetabling would play into gate usage? If you have 3 flights leaving one airport at 10:00am, you would need 3 gates instead of 1 if we are to keep track of when gates are occupied and not just how much in total.

[M.F. Ensembleson]

Have you thought of how timetabling would play into gate usage? If you have 3 flights leaving one airport at 10:00am, you would need 3 gates instead of 1 if we are to keep track of when gates are occupied and not just how much in total.

True point.  I remember there was another idea posted in another thread where instead of going by minutes, you'd go by aircraft size, as follows.

 

Regional Jets would take .5 slots.

Narrow Bodies - 1 slot.

Wide bodies - 1.5/2 slots.

 

Either or is a good idea though.  If we were to incorporate the gate renting per minutes, that would complicate the heck out of timetabling.  I wouldn't really want to deal with that personally, and I don't think that's what happens realistically either.

[CAA]

What about an option to rent gate by time?  For a 3x weekly international route, in reality airlines don't hog a gate for 24/7 and leave it empty 90% of the time.  The gate would be shared by few airlines flying similar planes.

 

At least for the airport here (YVR), those international wide-bodies are typically sharing a pool of about 10 gates.  Even AC doesn't seems to have a fixed departure gate for many of the routes.  I remember few years ago, JL ran 3 different NRT-YVR-??? routes that adds up to 10x weekly during summer, and it is possible to have 3 744s at YVR during some point of the week (the schedule was so funky that they have 2 planes scheduled to depart for NRT literally 50min apart, even in the off-season).  And yet JL didn't hog 3 of the 7 gates (at that time) that can be used to service 744.  Once the plane departed, some other airline takeover the gate.

 

And also, it does seems a bit unrealistic that if you own a gate, you would be able to run both 747 and propeller planes out of it (it should be served by two different gate of different size).  And also the fact that you can run scheduled A380 international flight to any airport as long as the runway is long enough, even if the airport only have gate/terminal for servicing small planes and/or there's no custom facility...

[Yuxi]

What about an option to rent gate by time?  For a 3x weekly international route, in reality airlines don't hog a gate for 24/7 and leave it empty 90% of the time.  The gate would be shared by few airlines flying similar planes.

 

At least for the airport here (YVR), those international wide-bodies are typically sharing a pool of about 10 gates.  Even AC doesn't seems to have a fixed departure gate for many of the routes.  I remember few years ago, JL ran 3 different NRT-YVR-??? routes that adds up to 10x weekly during summer, and it is possible to have 3 744s at YVR during some point of the week (the schedule was so funky that they have 2 planes scheduled to depart for NRT literally 50min apart, even in the off-season).  And yet JL didn't hog 3 of the 7 gates (at that time) that can be used to service 744.  Once the plane departed, some other airline takeover the gate.

 

And also, it does seems a bit unrealistic that if you own a gate, you would be able to run both 747 and propeller planes out of it (it should be served by two different gate of different size).  And also the fact that you can run scheduled A380 international flight to any airport as long as the runway is long enough, even if the airport only have gate/terminal for servicing small planes and/or there's no custom facility...

 

That's a good point. Counting the gate hours would be a good way to simplify things, as long as we keep track of airport capacity. In other words, we still need to make sure that the number of gates occupied at an airport at any given time doesn't exceed the total number of gates.

 

If we can simplify gate leasing in the time aspect, then there would be micromanagement room to add gate size differentiation, which I also want to implement.

[Sheepy]

Also may be worth considering, that in place such as Sydney, where planes arriving from Europe will sit for about 12 hours, a 'gate' should probably only be occupied for about 3 hours, and it could sit at a slightly cheaper parking stand for the other 9...

Also adding more doors available for boarding faster could be wise, e.g. by renting airstairs and attaching these to the back door.

Could be adding even more complexity though . 

[Keelung]

<p>I think we should separate the concept of slots from gates, they are two different matters. Slots are the rights to land and takeoff at the airport which can be owned by the airport, bought by airlines, or leased by airlines from the airport or other airlines. The cost of utilizing the slots either owned or leased should be determined by the Category of the aircraft being flown into the airport. There should be a limited number of slots per week, but considering the number of airlines and airplanes they operate in AE, unless there is a system where airlines can finance airport expansion which costs astronomically and takes years to construct in the game, we should include a unrealistic number of slots. In case an airport runs out of slots like London Heathrow, if there are slots owned by airlines which are unused for a given period of time, the slots would be placed on sale or lease on market. If the slots are leased from other airlines, they will be returned and the airline which owns the slot would be alerted through mail and if the slots belong to the airport authority they be just be returned and placed back on market.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>Gates can either be owned by the airport or airlines through terminals. Operating costs should be lower if airlines own the gates or terminals. The number of aircraft that can use a single gate in a week will be determined by the aircraft's turnaround time. So theoretically, it will be the number of minutes a gate has, which will be 11080 minutes a week. Airports would lease gates out in minutes. Airlines can choose to lease their gates out in minutes to other airlines. If the airport runs out of gates, airlines can choose to construct a new terminal or expand from their own.</p>
<p>&nbsp;</p>
<p>I guess this would make the game more realistic but I hope it doesn't complicate things</p>

[Sheepy]

Rather than having a set number of runways/gates. I'd like to see airports dynamically respond over time to the demand being placed on them. After all, if an airport has run out of runway slots, it'll be actively trying to increase those slots, be this by more runways or a more efficient ATC structure (for example Heathrow).
Likewise, a terminal with never more than one of twelve gates in use is likely to downsize due to the costs of maintaining the infrastructure in place.
On a reasonably unrelated note.
A more dynamic world in general for AE4 would be nice, in my opinion. Particularly through stimulating demand due to the existence of a flight...

[LLC]

Also may be worth considering, that in place such as Sydney, where planes arriving from Europe will sit for about 12 hours, a 'gate' should probably only be occupied for about 3 hours, and it could sit at a slightly cheaper parking stand for the other 9...
Also adding more doors available for boarding faster could be wise, e.g. by renting airstairs and attaching these to the back door.
Could be adding even more complexity though . 

 
a better option is to add the following type of jetways in Airline Empires to serve Widebody Aircraft
 
-single jetway
 
- dual jetway

 
- A380 jetway (triple)

 
with different costs to purchase different types of gates for terminals (we would decide what type(s) of jetways, and the number of jetways when expanding or building a terminal)

[Sheepy]

Jetways are nasty. We should have stairs too. D:<

[Nick of DC Airways]

 
a better option is to add the following type of jetways in Airline Empires to serve Widebody Aircraft
 
-single jetway
 
- dual jetway

 
- A380 jetway (triple)

 
with different costs to purchase different types of gates for terminals (we would decide what type(s) of jetways, and the number of jetways when expanding or building a terminal)

This would be cool if implemented (but probably won't) except Md series left doors are mini. So if you used md-80's you could not use the left gate.