19 replies to this topic

[Conor]

Air France has lost contact with a plane carrying 228 people from Brazil to Paris said an official on today Monday.
"Air France regrets to announce that it is without news from Air France Flight 447 from Rio to Paris" a spokesperson said.
The aircraft carrying 216 Passengers and 12 Crew went missing about 186 Miles Northeast of the coastal city Natal.
The airline has installed an information centre at Paris CDG for the families.
The flight was scheduled to arrive at 09:15 GMT

ill keep updating the post

[Conor]

Watch The RTÉ news report here: http://www.rte.ie/ne...554294,null,230

the Department of Foreign Affairs has confirmed that three Irish citizens were on board an Air France Flight that has disappeared over the Atlantic Ocean.

The Air France plane with 228 people on board disappeared on its way from Brazil to Paris after hitting strong turbulence.

French officials say they fear the worst.

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Officials from the Department of Foreign Affairs have contacted the families of those Irish passengers and are offering full consular assistance.

The Irish embassies in both France and Brazil remain in close contact with the authorities investigating the disappearance of the flight.

Meanwhile, the Brazilian air force said the Airbus jet was well advanced over the sea when it went missing and military planes took off from both South America and Africa to hunt for the plane.

'We are probably facing an air catastrophe,' Air France Chief Executive Pierre-Henri Gourgeon said.

Air France said the airliner sent an automatic message reporting an electrical fault at 3.14am Irish time, roughly 15 minutes after the plane flew through a stormy area with strong turbulence.

Flight AF 447 left Rio de Janeiro last night at 11pm Irish time and had been expected to land at Paris Charles de Gaulle airport this morning at 10.15am Irish time.

The carrier said 216 passengers were on board, including seven children and one baby, and 12 crew members. Air France said the pilots were highly experienced.

Senior French government minister Jean-Louis Borloo ruled out the possibility of a hijacking.

The jet's last known location was unclear and Brazil's Air Force said it lost contact with the plane at 3.14am.

The plane was an Airbus 330-200 powered with General Electric engines.

Air France said relatives of people travelling on board flight AF 447 were being taken care of in a special area of Charles de Gaulle airport.

The last major incident involving an Air France plane was in July 2000 when one of its Concorde supersonic airliners crashed just after taking off from Charles de Gaulle Airport bound for New York.

All 109 people on board were killed along with at least four on the ground.

In August 2005, an Air France Airbus burst into flames after shooting off the runway at Toronto airport following a storm. No one died in the crash.

Taken from RTÉ news

Three Irish citizens were on board an Air France plane which disappeared over the Atlantic Ocean on its way from Brazil to Paris, it has been confirmed.

The Department of Foreign Affairs confirmed this evening that three Irish citizens were on board the flight which has gone missing with 228 people on board.

Minister for Foreign Affairs Micheal Martin said: "Following the disappearance of Air France Flight AF 447 I want to convey my concern to all families awaiting news of loved ones."

"Officials from my Department have regrettably confirmed that three Irish citizens are on the passenger manifest for the flight from Rio to Paris. We have contacted the families of those involved and are offering full consular assistance."

Irish embassies in France and Brazil are in contact with the authorities investigating the disappearance of the flight, Mr Martin said.

Flight AF 447 left Rio de Janeiro yesterday at 7 p.m. (10 pm Irish time) and had been expected to land at Paris Charles de Gaulle airport today at 11:15 a.m. (9.15am).

About four hours later, the plane sent an automatic signal indicating electrical problems while going through strong turbulence, Air France said.

The plane "crossed through a thunderous zone with strong turbulence" at 2am. An automatic message was received fourteen minutes later "signaling electrical circuit malfunction."

The jet's last known location was unclear and Brazil's Air Force said it lost contact with the plane at 01.33 am Irish-time.

Brazil's air force was searching near the archipelago of Fernando de Noronha, about 300 kilometers (180 miles) northeast of the coastal city of Natal, a spokesman said, speaking on condition of anonymity in keeping with department policy.

The region is about 1,500 miles northeast of Rio.

In Washington, a Pentagon official said he'd seen no indication that terrorism or foul play was involved. He spoke on condition of anonymity due to the sensitive nature of the subject.

Douglas Ferreira Machado, the head of investigation for Brazil's Civil Aeronautics Agency, told Globo TV the plane could have been near the coast of Africa by the time contact was lost, based on the speed it was traveling.

"It's going to take a long time to carry out this search," he said. "It could be a long, sad story. The black box will be at the bottom of the sea."

Air France-KLM CEO Pierre-Henri Gourgeon, at a news conference at Charles de Gaulle Airport north of Paris, said the pilot had 11,000 hours of flying experience, including 1,700 hours flying this aircraft. No name was released.

"We are without doubt facing an air catastrophe," Gourgeon said. "At this time, the plane's fuel reserves would not permit it to still be in flight."

He said the plane was "very far" from Brazilian coast when last contact was made, without providing details.

Aviation experts said the risk the plane was brought down by lightning was slim.

"Lightning issues have been considered since the beginning of aviation. They were far more prevalent when aircraft operated at low altitudes. They are less common now since it's easier to avoid thunderstorms," said Bill Voss, president and CEO of Flight Safety Foundation, Alexandria, Va.

He said planes have specific measures built in to help dissipate electricity along the aircraft's skin.

Experts said the absence of a mayday call meant something happened very quickly.

Families who arrived to meet passengers on board were cared for, away from reporters, at a special Air France information center at the Charles de Gaulle airport.

Air France said it alerted planemaker Airbus and France's civil aviation investigation office, known by its French acronym BEA.

If all 228 people were killed, it would be the deadliest commercial airline disaster since Nov. 12, 2001, when an American Airlines jetliner crashed in the New York City borough of Queens during a flight to the Dominican Republic, killing 265 people.

On Feb. 19, 2003, 275 people were killed in the crash of an Iranian military plane carrying members of the Revolutionary Guards as it prepared to land at Kerman airport in Iran.

Airbus said it was co-operating with transport authorities and Air France, but would not further comment until more details emerged.

"Our thoughts are with the passengers and with the families of the passengers," said Airbus spokeswoman Maggie Bergsma.

The Airbus A330-200 is a twin-engine, long-haul, medium-capacity passenger jet that is 58.8 meters (190 feet) long. It is a shortened version of the standard A330, and can hold up to 253 passengers. It first went into service in 1998 and there are 341 in use worldwide today. It can fly up to 7,760 miles.

Rick Kennedy, a spokesman for GE Aviation, expressed doubt that the engine was at fault. He said the CF6-80E engine that powered the Air France plane "is the most popular and reliable engine that we have for big airplanes in the world."

He said there are more than 15,000 airplanes flying in the world with that engine design and GE Aviation officials were on standby to help.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy expressed his "extreme worry" and planned to visit the Charles de Gaulle airport later today

Taken From The Irish Times

[Maestro69]

Just some info that i have read on the net over the past few hours:

- A pilot for TAM, flying the other way to Brazil, seems to have seen some orange lights from the Ocean while passing over the Atlantic, on a similar path to the Air France AF447 flight. Could be lifejackets or parts onfire.
- Thunderstorms up fo FL500 and which, it may yet to be proven, but the Air France A330-200 pilots try to fly straight through. Though, yet to be proven if serve turbulence, strong thunder or a combination of both brought the plane down.
- Air France HQ may have more information in regards to the messages sent by the A330-200 than what has been mentioned by Air France in public. It could that the messages sent by the A330 were while is was falling from the sky (so to speak, no disrespect to anyone!)
- Brazil Air Force and Navy loooking for aircraft north of a Brazil island, which seems to be the last radar contact for the Airbus. Also, France and Spain have launched their own mission to find the plane from the Europe/African side. France have ask the Pentagon to use their satellites to find and locate the aircraft in the Atlantic.

Though, apparently, the Black Box would send a signal out for rescue crews to find it, so it could be recovered. However, i have yet to hear anything to indicate that the signal is transmitting... then again, im not expert, just going by what i read on the net, which can be 99.99% of the time, misleading.

[DiscoverFRA]

Airbus release on the AF447

AIR FRANCE FLIGHT AF 447
Media Information on Air France AF 447

1 June 2009

Airbus regrets to confirm that an Airbus A330-200 operated by Air France has been lost about 3.5 hours after departure. The aircraft was operating a scheduled service, Flight AF 447, from Rio de Janeiro (Brazil) to Paris (France).

The missing aircraft, registered under the number F-GZCP, was MSN (Manufacturer Serial Number) 660, delivered to Air France from the production line in April 2005. The aircraft had accumulated approximately 18,800 flight hours in some 2,500 flights. It was powered by CF6-80E1 engines. At this time no further factual information is available.

In line with ICAO Annex 13 international convention, Airbus has offered full technical assistance to the investigation board. The investigation remains the entire responsibility of the relevant board and it would be inappropriate for Airbus to enter into any form of speculation.

The concerns and sympathy of the Airbus employees go to the families, friends and loved ones affected

http://www.airbus.co...isis/index.html

[lurch]

Just some info that i have read on the net over the past few hours:
Though, apparently, the Black Box would send a signal out for rescue crews to find it, so it could be recovered. However, i have yet to hear anything to indicate that the signal is transmitting... then again, im not expert, just going by what i read on the net, which can be 99.99% of the time, misleading.

This is true. The black box(It is actually bright orange) does send out a signal for recovery. Since the black boxes went from tape to digital it can handle a lot more stress and heat. 300 g's of force is what I last heard. Also, there is a posibility that their are two black boxes on the a/c...Companies(boeing/airbus) started going to this for reliability; one is in the back of the a/c and the other in the front.
I am hoping that they can recover this information because it makes the investigation go a lot faster because I am sure the families and freinds are wondering what happened. My thoughts and prayers go out to them.

[Maestro69]

This is true. The black box(It is actually bright orange) does send out a signal for recovery. Since the black boxes went from tape to digital it can handle a lot more stress and heat. 300 g's of force is what I last heard. Also, there is a posibility that their are two black boxes on the a/c...Companies(boeing/airbus) started going to this for reliability; one is in the back of the a/c and the other in the front.
I am hoping that they can recover this information because it makes the investigation go a lot faster because I am sure the families and freinds are wondering what happened. My thoughts and prayers go out to them.

Thanks lurch for clearing the matter up. Greatly appreciated

[Conor]

Just to add what lurch was saying:
There are 2 types of "black boxes" the FDR (flight data recorder) wich is indeed as lurch said located at the back of the aircraft. The FDR gathers all instrument information like heading, speed, altitude etc. The second "black box" is the CVR (cockpit voice recorder) as you can guess this records any noise in the cockpit and records communications with ATC. The FDR and CVR can be located in the same or seperate boxes and the bright orange colour is actually fire proof

[flightsimer]

@ that black boxes...

yes there are two, but they dont do the same things. one is a flight data recorder (FDR) which will show everything that happens to the plane technically and will show the envolopes of flight the aircraft was in. the second one is a cockpit voice recorder (CVR). which is obvious what it does. the CVR is on a 30min loop. the recorders are made so they can withstand 3400 G's for 6.5 milliseconds which is like an impact of 270kts. they both are located in the back of the plane in seperate boxes. After a crash they are able to send out signals for location for 30 days.


They have confirmed wreckage of the plane today off the coast of brazil. all that was found was 1 seat and a few small pieces of what probably was part of the fuselage or tail. the location of the crash will make recovery of the wreck very difficult to do because of the depths of the water and the very strong seas in the area.

[Maestro69]

Well, i did read that they have found wreckage over a 5km area!!!

The Brazilian navy is sending 2-3 ships which should arrive early tonight/tomorrow, my time, in the area and start the recovery of wreckage. While, the French Navy is sending one ship with 2 specialised mini-submarines with a depth of around 6000 miles ( i believe they say in that specified region, it is only 4900 miles deep) to recover the black boxes...

[Conor]

Yea i heard a TAM pilot flying the same return route spotted the wreckage. But i think that anyone who knows anything about aviation would know that from the start that survivors seemed unlikely i mean if the pilot didnt send a mayday call then that could only mean a few things:
explosive decompression and mid air break up
Terrorist attack
Catastrophic electrical failure
And at FL350 none of them are survivable

[Conor]

Check out my Blog at http://www.bebo.com/...0 it shows my thoughts on what may have caused the crash leave a comment if your on bebo and put down your AE forum name to

[Maestro69]

That link just leads me to an empty page showing nothing???

[travelhouse]

Empty page link of (Kermit The Frog)

[Conor]

shoot sorry. ill copy and paste it onto a post on this thread later so

[flightsimer]

all the wreckage that they found has now been confirmed to have not been from the A330

[Conor]

all the wreckage that they found has now been confirmed to have not been from the A330

Are we looking at a midair collision then?

[Jet]

The wreckage was rubbish i read in a paper;)

[travelhouse]

Latest New 2-hrs ago

Sub joins search for Air France wreckage

By Nick Olle and wires
Posted 2 hours 36 minutes ago
An intensive air and sea operation is yet to recover any bodies or debris from the Air France plane that vanished earlier this week.
Twelve planes, a helicopter and three navy ships are already sweeping the suspected crash zone off Brazil's north-east coast and now a French nuclear submarine is being sent to join the search.
It is believed the 228 passengers and crew on board the plane died in the crash.
According to the French defence minister, the nuclear-powered submarine has surveillance equipment that could help locate the plane's black box flight recorders.
Officials say none of the debris salvaged from the Atlantic waters was from flight AF447.
Identifying wreckage from the plane would allow investigators to refine the search area as they race against the clock to find the flight recorders, which only emit signals for 30 days.
The head of air traffic control for the area, Brazilian Brigadier Ramon Cardoso, has told reporters "we have not made any recovery of material."
Some items spotted floating in the vicinity were "not relevant," he said.
Brazilian officials said items picked up Thursday turned out on closer inspection to be nothing more than trash, probably from ships.
But positive sightings in the waves of a seat from a plane and cables and other components on Tuesday and Wednesday convinced searchers they were in the right spot.
Crash clues

Mr Cardoso said those objects might have since sunk to the bottom of the ocean, where the plane's black boxes are also believed to be.
Without clues from the wreckage or the data in the black boxes, speculation climbed over what caused the accident.
French Defence Minister Herve Morin has told reporters in Paris he had not ruled out a terrorist attack on the plane, although he had not heard of any threats or claims of responsibility being made.
French Transport Minister Dominique Bussereau said "we must do everything we can to find the flight recorders" but admitted "time is against us."
The operation is being hampered by difficult weather conditions, with poor visibility and large waves complicating the search.
Meanwhile, the former inspector-general of the United States Department of Transportation, Mary Schiavo, says she believes the plane's speed devices failed in bad weather.
"The engines would have been revving up and down, there would have been a lot of fluctuation, a lot of porpoising of the plane and then at one point in the four minute spiral down to earth, they lost pressurisation," she said.
Plane-maker Airbus had issued a notice warning crews on its aircraft worldwide what to do when speed indicators give conflicting read-outs, suggesting a link with data alerts sent by the ill-fated Air France plane shortly before it met its end.

[Conor]

2 bodies and a suitcase found. Im betting this was a terrorist attack or mid air break up because its almost the same as Air India flight 182 (http://en.wikipedia....ndia_Flight_182 )wich was bombed in Irish Airspace 120Km of the coast of Cork (wich happens to be wher i live)

[DiscoverFRA]

News just in from Bloomberg

Three More Bodies Found in Atlantic Near Crash Site (Update2)
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By Iuri Dantas and Helder Marinho

June 7 (Bloomberg) -- Three more bodies were pulled from the Atlantic Ocean today amid the debris of Air France Flight 447 as Brazilian military boats and aircraft scanned the waters for additional victims.

The three bodies, whose sex wasn’t determined, were found about 80 kilometers (50 miles) from the point where the Airbus A330 jet bound for Paris from Rio de Janeiro last emitted radio signals on June 1 before going down with 228 people aboard, Frigate Captain Giucemar Tabosa, a spokesman for the Brazilian Navy, told reporters today.

The bodies of two men were found yesterday, and more have been sighted amid “hundreds” of aircraft pieces and personal items, Tabosa said. Yesterday, crews searching an area about 849 kilometers from Fernando de Noronha island found a wing fragment, as well as a blue aircraft seat, a leather bag containing an Air France ticket and a backpack with a vaccination card inside.

A frigate involved in the search “is reporting that it was sailing in a sea of debris,” Tabosa told reporters in Recife, the northeastern city where salvage operations are based.

Brazilian officials said a French submarine steaming toward the crash site will search for the plane’s flight-data recorders, known as black boxes. The recorders, made by Honeywell International Inc., have water-activated “pingers” that run for 30 days and remain intact as deep as 3.8 miles, about twice that of the place where the wreckage is located.

The search team’s priority is to recover human remains, Lieutenant Colonel Henry Munhoz, a spokesman for Brazil’s Air Force, said at the same press conference today.

Medical Examiner

“There’s no doubt that all the parts and bodies found belonged to the Air France plane,” Munhoz said. The Air Force sighted two more plane seats today, he said. The bodies and belongings will be sent to the Pernambuco state medical examiner’s office in Recife, he said.

Air France first noticed flaws with the Airbus 330 speed sensors involved in last week’s deadly crash more than a year ago. The airline began replacing the sensors with models less vulnerable to ice at the end of April, 18 months after Airbus recommended that clients upgrade the component supplied by Thales SA, Air France said in statement on its Web site.

Flight 447 gave inconsistent readings on its speed before disappearing over the Atlantic.

France’s chief crash investigator said yesterday that unreliable data from the sensors could have kicked off the chain of events that led to the accident.

Airbus Recommendation

Airbus recommended that airlines replace the speed sensors, known as Pitot tubes, on its Airbus 320, 340 and 330 models in September 2007. Air France began changing the probes on the A320 in 2007 while leaving them in place on longer-haul A330 and A340 aircraft. The change was made in the A320 because “water ingress had been observed,” something that didn’t show up in the other models, the statement said.

The airline didn’t notice any problems on the A330s and A340s until May 2008, when it saw that ice appeared to affect the reading for a few minutes, according to the release, posted on the Web site yesterday just after 11 p.m. Paris time. The airline said it accelerated the replacement of the sensors, even though their role in the disaster hasn’t been established.

“Without making any assumptions as to a possible link with the causes of the accident, Air France speeded up this program,” the airline said. The company “reminded its pilots of the current instructions issued by the manufacturer to cope with the loss of airspeed data.”

French Engineer

Pitot tubes are named after the French engineer who discovered in the early 1700s that the pressure of a gas or liquid through a tube could be used to determine velocity.

Blocked or damaged Pitot tubes have been blamed for air disasters including the 1996 crash of a Boeing Co. 757 flown by Alas Nacionales, which plunged into the Atlantic after takeoff from the Dominican Republic, killing all 189 people on board. Readings overstating the plane’s speed caused the pilots to fly too slowly and stall, investigators found.

About 600 A330s are in service with more than 60 carriers, including Air Canada, BMI, Delta Air Lines Inc., Lufthansa, Malaysian Airlines, SAS Group Inc. and US Airways Group Inc., according to the Airbus Web site.

Malaysian Airlines finished upgrading the sensors on its A330-200 planes last September, Mohd Roslan Ismail, the carrier’s chief maintenance manager, said in an e-mail.

Delta, SAS, BMI and US Airways declined to comment or said information wasn’t immediately available on whether their planes had the upgraded sensors. Lufthansa and Air Canada didn’t return calls and messages seeking comment.