100 replies to this topic

[airline55]

Well, I don't know how much coverage this story is getting outside of the U.S., so I will post some quick facts below. However, for those who want to comment, how do you fell about the illegal immigrant/amnesty/guest worker program issue, and what what would you do about it?


Facts:
> There are at least 11 million illegals in the United States.
> Many of these people are currently working in jobs that Americans don't want.
>Some illegals are working in postitions that Americans would take (ex. construction, fast food, road crews).
> Some pople want to deport all illegals under a DHS plan called "operation end game."
> Some people want to give them citizenship right away.
>Some immigrants (legal and othwise) are claiming racisim.


My thoughts:

You only need to look at the newest part of my sig. to know how I feel. I want HR.4437 (making illegal immigration a felony) passed, and I want to see all illegals deported. I think we need to make sure that any "guest workers" or illegals (depends on which laws go into effect) are not taking jobs away from Americans who want them.

Your thoughts?:puzzled:

[watchdog]

Facts:
> There are at least 11 million illegals in the United States.
Your thoughts?:puzzled:

Good you keep the 11 Million in USA that way the rest of us wold people can be assured that they will not enter our country

[TimS]

Been looking here on and off for a while.. Anyway, just wanted to state something..

I think this issue is not just a matter of yes or no.. I can't say I agree, I can't say I disagree either, it's a bit of both world.. The larger question is, who was at fault for allowing them to stay illegaly in the first place? That should be the prime factor in determining the fate of illegal immigrants. Duration of stay and developed roots should be another pair, and only after those, the 'own interest' part should come into play..

Again, just my thoughts.

[drv4truk]

Deport every single one of them and charge the government of origin a minimum of $5,000 (US) for each illegal immigrant. That would cover a small portion of the charges involved with deporting and holding them. I used to work with a group of illegals when I worked for a tree service. Only one of them had a real drivers license and that was because he had someone else take the test for him. The rest had purchased fake ones in New York City. They were making $10+/hr cash, off the books.

The wall along the border should be built first and then try a guest worker program. Unless they can keep track of all the workers coming in and where they are, it will be a joke.

[Maestro69]

Well, i see it as the easy way out.. as usual...

All good kicking these people out but who is going to pick up there jobs and make sure businesses dont suffer? let alone how they will survive or support themselves while return back to their home countries. Illegal immigrants only to this becuase in their home countries, jobs are scare and pay aint even close to what they would earn even as a low pay worker in a developed country...

Then again, im not a politican, so my opinion doesnt really matter..

[airline55]

That right there is the bigggest issue, how to make sure that the jobs that need to be filled get filled, and how to make sure Americans don't loose out because of a guest worker program. My theory is, this is America and Americans come first.

Everyone thalks about jobs "Americans won't do" as being the ones filled by illegals. The problem is, Americans will work at fast food restaurants, they will work at construction sites, and they will work at places like Wal-Mart. Now those three jobs are often filled by illegals, even though there are many Americans willing to work in those positions.

Again, how do you make sure Americans don't loose out?

[number1air]

The problem is, Americans will work at fast food restaurants, they will work at construction sites, and they will work at places like Wal-Mart.

So u state that WalMart employ these people. better inform the INS quick as they can swoop and rid of the WALMARTS all over USA then u will have to shop other places, but do not think Walmart employ what u say:p

[airline55]

there was a relativly large news story last year about a Wal Mart found hiring illegals.

[drv4truk]

So u state that WalMart employ these people. better inform the INS quick as they can swoop and rid of the WALMARTS all over USA then u will have to shop other places, but do not think Walmart employ what u say:p

You have no idea how prevalent and easy it is to get fake Social Security cards and Birth Certificates. Only about a third of the social security numbers will come up as false when tested, so some of them will get jobs at Walmart.

Using Social Security cards as a screening method is another joke of the system. If anything, the National ID card program needs to be implemented. This would solve so many problems (taxes, identification, travel,etc.). But of course, too many people would complain about their privacy being violated to get this implemented.

[number1air]

You have no idea how prevalent and easy it is to get fake Social Security cards and Birth Certificates. Only about a third of the social security numbers will come up as false when tested, so some of them will get jobs at Walmart.

Using Social Security cards as a screening method is another joke of the system. If anything, the National ID card program needs to be implemented. This would solve so many problems (taxes, identification, travel,etc.). But of course, too many people would complain about their privacy being violated to get this implemented.

National ID Cards was just passed in the UK and will be included with all new passports applications and other ways and like u say it is easy to gain fake ID just as easy as getting another email addy Why do you think Hitler invented tattoos on POW's that number stayed with them forever, Bush may have to start being like that too

[number1air]

there was a relativly large news story last year about a Wal Mart found hiring illegals.

Then do not shop at their store if u are 100% behind supporting non-employment of illegals if all you Yanks did that u will make those who pratice this illegals employment stand up and think

[HADC10]

I think that given the current situation in Congress, the guest worker visa program is the best thing that can happen. The deportation of 11 million people is a waste of time and money, that should be spent on other things (New Orleans, Sudan, economic development in Latin America), and not thrown away trying to kick people out who will find a way back in. Its true that illegal immigrants are taking many jobs that Americans don't want. Also, in ten years, we will end up with labor shortages if these immigrants are deported, and want them back in. Plus, if we really want to stop illegal immigration, we have to
A) Make the immigration process easier
and
Encourage foreign investment in Latin America, and fair trade, to improve the standard of living, and keep immigrants from flooding across the border.

[drv4truk]

The deportation of 11 million people is a waste of time and money, that should be spent on other things (New Orleans, Sudan, economic development in Latin America), and not thrown away trying to kick people out who will find a way back in.

Don't get me started on Hurrican areas. I have seen and paid enough living on the coast of Virginia. I agree with a few in Congress that there should be a National Coastal Area that includes all of the Gulf Coast and parts of the East Coast from Florida to New Jersey. This would basically make everything from shoreline to 50 miles inland an at your own risk area. If you don't have insurance, your on your own. If you are covered by insurance, they would be required to cover any damage (flood, wind, etc.). This would raise the rates in those areas, but would lower the burden on the federal government so we wouldn't be paying Billions of dollars to rebuild.

Anyways, a National ID Card is the only way to go. With all of the forgers out there though, it would have to include some kind of fingerprint, retinal, or biometric scan. That way when you register for the card, the information is placed in a national database and then your scan is confirmed whenever you use your card.

[HADC10]

I think there is an inherant 4th Amendment violation in the ID card

[drv4truk]

I think there is an inherant 4th Amendment violation in the ID card

That's Bologna. The 4th ammendment deals, with searches, seizures and warrants. I can't see how having to get an ID card would interfere with, "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." An ID card would not have anything to do with your rights under the ammendment. The 14th ammendement is the only one deals with immigration.

Just look at all the documents that are required to get a drivers license now days. Especially if you are trying to get a license in a state where you have just moved or if it is your first time getting a license. Most states make sure you are a citizen and are eligible, while others are giving them away to illegals.

In California and New York, I know people that have paid $20-$150 to buy drivers license, Social Security cards, and Birth Certificates. Once every 2-3 years, the local, state and federal agencies will come in and bust up a lot of these operations, but they always seem to return. Same thing with the illegals themselves.

I know at least 3-4 locations in New Jersey where we used to go pick up day laborers. They would hang out in front of a 7-11 and wait for someone to come along and hire them for the day. Landscapers, Tree service, and other business people would come hire them for the day, week or for every day during the summer. About once a year, INS will come in and bust them and the employers. It never stopped them though. One of the guys I worked with had been deported 4 different times over the last 6 years. At $10/ hr, tell me how this is cheaper then hiring a legal immigrant or US worker that would do the same job. Especially if the employer gets caught picking them up or hiring them and has his vehicles seized and the business gets audited (tax evasion, etc.).

[watchdog]

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." [/I] An ID card would not have anything to do with your rights under the ammendment. The 14th ammendement is the only one deals with immigration.

Just look at all the documents that are required to get a drivers license now days. Especially if you are trying to get a license in a state where you have just moved or if it is your first time getting a license. Most states make sure you are a citizen and are eligible, while others are giving them away to illegals.

In California and New York, I know people that have paid $20-$150 to buy drivers license, Social Security cards, and Birth Certificates. Once every 2-3 years, the local, state and federal agencies will come in and bust up a lot of these operations, but they always seem to return. Same thing with the illegals themselves.

I know at least 3-4 locations in New Jersey where we used to go pick up day laborers. They would hang out in front of a 7-11 and wait for someone to come along and hire them for the day. Landscapers, Tree service, and other business people would come hire them for the day, week or for every day during the summer. About once a year, INS will come in and bust them and the employers. It never stopped them though. One of the guys I worked with had been deported 4 different times over the last 6 years. At $10/ hr, tell me how this is cheaper then hiring a legal immigrant or US worker that would do the same job. Especially if the employer gets caught picking them up or hiring them and has his vehicles seized and the business gets audited (tax evasion, etc.).

Sounds like you lot in the USA have some restructuring to do with immigration laws, for now keep them there that way we will not be flooded with you'ur rejects

[airline55]

I think there is an inherant 4th Amendment violation in the ID card

not anymore than a drivers licence.

[Scalpel4]

Since it will be a felony, this requires jail time. So we'll have to house these guys. Alright, let's put the numbers to this.

8,000,000 illegals in the US currently. Of which we'll say 50% of them can be rounded up (conservative estimate, actual number should be higher). We'll say 4 million new prisoners. As a point of reference, currently the US has just over 2 million prisoners locked up right now.

The typical maximum security prison in the US holds 2500 inmates, but the average is lower. Since we're judging on the conservative side numerically, let's just say 2500. 4 million / 2500 = 1600 new prisons required in the US, MINIMUM.

OK it costs $250 million to build a 2000 inmate prison in the US, plus between $61 to $73 per day to house them. I'll use the $250 million startup cost on the 2500 inmate size and the lower $61 per inmate housing cost. Again numbers will be lower, but it's easier to calculate.

$250 million * 1600 prisons = $400 BILLION DOLLARS
4 million prisoners * $61 * 365 days = $89 BILLION dollars per year.

If this happens, the US will have to pay $400 billion dollars startup cost plus $89 billion per year MINIMUM to house these illegals. Don't forget the extra cost of lost tax revenue, because MOST ILLEGALS HAVE TAXES TAKEN OUT OF THEIR CHECKS and are not paid oin cash under the table as the politicians would have you believe with this KNEE JERK NEOCON overreaction to the problem.

Answer me this, how will we pay for this?

[airline55]

not jail, but deportation. The DHS has a plan to deport all illegals in the U.S.

[Scalpel4]

not jail, but deportation. The DHS has a plan to deport all illegals in the U.S.

Sorry to hit you with this, but your following your usual pattern on not having the facts straight.

HR 4437 adds dozens of new mandatory minimum penalties to current law. It imposes the same sentences upon persons who aid or assist certain immigrants to enter the United States as the immigrants themselves would receive. The bill would also impose one to 10 year mandatory minimum penalties for those who reenter the United States after deportation. These mandatory minimum sentences punish arbitrarily and strip judges from the discretion to make the punishment fit the crime, while also increasing the cost of incarceration to American taxpayers.

Do you honestly think they'll stay away, especially since the prospect of being in jail here is BETTER than being out of jail in the starving poverty they come from? C'mon man, you're smarter than that!