64 replies to this topic

[ChiJohnAok]

AR-15s are fun and a lot of shootings are handguns or conventional rifles not AR-15s! (These being points others brought up, i don't hugely care for the issue as i say)

 

 

Out of interest, do you multi-tier your gun sales?

 

IE: Easy to get a big slow firing rifle

A bit harder to get a pistol

Hilariously difficult to get an AR-15.

 

I'm not the expert, but in the US there is sort of a multi-tier to gun sales:

 

Rifles (including semi-automatics such as AR-15s) and pistols require the purchase be screened during the required federal waiting period.

 

Automatic weapons (such as machine guns) are legal to purchase, but the costs, approval hurdles, and scarcity of the weapons, makes it very difficult to obtain them.

 

Water pistols, guns drawn on paper, and pointing your finger or a french fry at someone if you are in a school generally result in your suspension and/or even arrest.

[ChiJohnAok]

AR-15s are fun and a lot of shootings are handguns or conventional rifles not AR-15s! (These being points others brought up, i don't hugely care for the issue as i say)

 

 

Out of interest, do you multi-tier your gun sales?

 

IE: Easy to get a big slow firing rifle

A bit harder to get a pistol

Hilariously difficult to get an AR-15.

 

I'm not the expert, but in the US there is sort of a multi-tier to gun sales:

 

Rifles (including semi-automatics such as AR-15s) and pistols require the purchaser be screened during the required federal waiting period.

 

Automatic weapons (such as machine guns) are legal to purchase, but the costs, approval hurdles, and scarcity of the weapons, makes it very difficult to obtain them.

 

Water pistols, guns drawn on paper, and pointing your finger or a french fry at someone if you are in a school generally result in your suspension and/or even arrest.

[TheOmnipotentAmerican]

I think that Machine Guns are very unnecessary to Own, A PPSh-41 for dear hunting , An M16 for target practice for fun with the family, an AK-47 for a shoot out, Assault weapons have no use in Public use and should stay in the Military   And if someones attacking your House what are 100 bullets going to do? If theirs a 100 people attacking your home it would not go unnoticed, so there is no need for the sale of large magazines

 

Most places you already can't own an m16. In reality they are speaking of banning assault weapons, which under the definitions presented are anything that just LOOKS dangerous. A semi-automatic AR-15 is no more dangerous than a standard semi automatic hunting rifle. The background checks and registration things are good though.

 

Somewhere around 450 out of 9000 deaths by firearms in the USA were caused by rifles, the number for "assault weapons" is even lower. Banning them is just illogical, people are just traumatized by the recent shootings and want something to take it out on.

[dieseltu]

doesn't happen with the UK. The UK has strict gun laws where people can still option an air rifle and other guns with the appropriate license. Even our police go unarmed, except airports etc. and they have armed units called out when appropriate. We get hardly any gun crime, yes we may get knife crime instead, but gun crime is far more deadly hence why there are more deaths caused by gun crime in the US. Knife crime>gun crime.

And thats the reason you almost lost WW2.  You didn't have any guns.   Until we bailed your arses with ours.    And we have been   subsidizing Europes defense since then.   How about we take our guns and all the other military equipment out of Europe all together.    And you keep out of our Constitution. And our rights.  Until you guys all successfully defend your own lands with your own Army.  on your own.

[dieseltu]

I think that Machine Guns are very unnecessary to Own, A PPSh-41 for dear hunting , An M16 for target practice for fun with the family, an AK-47 for a shoot out, Assault weapons have no use in Public use and should stay in the Military   And if someones attacking your House what are 100 bullets going to do? If theirs a 100 people attacking your home it would not go unnoticed, so there is no need for the sale of large magazines

 

 Every thing you listed has been banned since the 1968. national firearms act.  There are no auto weapons allowed here.      The citizens have the Constitutional right to own the same weapons as the military.  Even though we don't.   Apparently you  dont know the difference between semi auto and Assault  weapons. Let me clue you in . its not by how they look. And you   havn't seen any  negro riots here.  Nobody helps. Nobody is coming.   Nobody cares.   Don't be a victim.  

[Concagh98]

And you   havn't seen any  negro riots here.  Nobody helps. Nobody is coming.   Nobody cares.   Don't be a victim.

 

What? Its that sort of ignorant, incoherent language that gives America its low standing in Europe.

[Sheepy]

What? Its that sort of ignorant, incoherent language that gives America its low standing in Europe.

 

And a good portion of the rest of the world...

[X-Wing @Aliciousness]

And thats the reason you almost lost WW2.  You didn't have any guns.   Until we bailed your arses with ours.    And we have been   subsidizing Europes defense since then.   How about we take our guns and all the other military equipment out of Europe all together.    And you keep out of our Constitution. And our rights.  Until you guys all successfully defend your own lands with your own Army.  on your own.

 

the US hasn't even won a war we've gotten ourselves into since 1945. Europe's been able to keep themselves defended perfectly fine without our help, ever heard of the Falklands war?

 

People like you are the reason the US has a reputation of Ignorance and Stupidity in the western world

[Concagh98]

Playing devil's advocate to Foxtrident, just two more words: Marshall Plan.

[Concagh98]

Er..Not sure what to say... anyway, back on subject, I don't see the point of civilliams keeping such powerful weapons in their homes, so Obama's Plans have my full support. PS: what is the progress of that bill?

[ChiJohnAok]

Er..Not sure what to say... anyway, back on subject, I don't see the point of civilliams keeping such powerful weapons in their homes, so Obama's Plans have my full support. PS: what is the progress of that bill?

I believe there was a group of Senators working on it.

From what I read, proposals to tighten up federal background checks for purchases of firearms has a decent chance of passing,

Proposals to implement an assault weapons ban, less so.

Some states are also moving forward with their own legislation.

One state legislator in Florida wants to require that anyone purchasing a bullet (not a gun, but a bullet) have to first successfully pass an anger management class (and periodically obtain recertification of this).

I mean geez louiese, there are probably more in incidents every year involving road rage issues than incidents involving "gun rage".
Should we require anger management classes to obtain a drivers license, purchase a car, or more appropriate to the comparison, to buy a gallon of gas (or petrol for you ferenerz).

[2ndAcr]

 Powerful weapons? You mean the AR15, .223 and 5.56mm military style rifle? Did you know that the Barrett .50 cal will be totally legal under the proposed weapons ban? It only has a 10 round mag max capacity.

 

If so, there are way way more rifles out there NOT being looked at more powerful. Heck they want to ban my semi auto .22LR just because it can take a 25 round magazine. I don't see anyone yelling outlaw Winchester .30-.30 and they are way more powerful than a AR15. I can shoot mine slightly slower than my AR15's. I can reload it pretty dang fast to boot. And yet the Winchester is about the most political correct rifle there is.

 

I have used my AR15 for target shooting, hunting (not deer) but wild hog, coyote hunting.

 

They can back ground check me all day long, even require a back ground check on ammo purchases. I have a concealed carry so I don't have to really wait to buy a gun. I have already been thru the process. Limit mags will do nothing, I have over 20 30 round mags already, and most others have multi also. The mega mags out there are notorious for jamming, so I say keep those on the market. That is why the Movie Theater shoot switched to a pistol, his mega mag jammed the rifle.

 

Everyone jumps on gun owners enmass, yet it was the mothers fault the crazy kid shot all those other kids. She knew she had a mentally unstable "kid" in the house yet had weapons easy to get at, even taught him how to shoot them. Everyone blames the gun yet I don't hear a single sole faulting the mother in the school shooting. my sister in law is a paranoid scitz, and I can say, all my weapons are locked down tight when she is around except for the one I have on me. Mental patients are extremely prone to quit taking their meds and then they go nuts. I don't trust her as far as I can throw a semi truck. I am all for locking them down and keeping them jacked down with meds. Sorry but I have been around when she had an "episode" and I wished I had my gun on me. They go extreme violent. The cops tased the crap out of her........hauled her into the psyc ward, a week or so later, momma had her back out again. A couple months will go by, she decides she does not have to take her meds, and wham, looney bin time. Some day, she will really hurt or kill someone and I will direct blame at the system and her mom, not at what she uses as a weapon.

[Stevphfeniey]

Really? Because my best friend is paranoid schizophrenic, and not once has she ever been violent to the point where I wish I had a gun on me. Sure, she's stopped taking her meds for awhile, and during that time she had freaked out when I'm around. However it was not so serious that she needed to get tased and trucked off to a loony bin (though it took quite a bit of convincing that her meds, while not enjoyable, were the best option at the moment). In fact, the only times she went to the hospital were for issues more or less unrelated to her schizophrenia.

 

The state of the mental health system in the US is appalling quite frankly. There hasn't been much progress in the way of treating the root causes of issues like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder, even though we know what causes them (albeit, the whole "blood-brain barrier" thing is quite the hurdle to leap). To boot, I feel like the government and the people have more or less given up on mental health, with the prevailing sentiment being "oh, just throw them in a hospital and it'll be all better". And while there are cases in which long-term stays in mental health facilities are the best option, it should not be the only option. 

 

Improvement in mental health facilities and care is something I care strongly about, and that I agree wholeheartedly with. It's a good solution, but not the only solution. Stepping up background checks and records of gun owners in the US, along with giving the ATF the ability to do its job and regulate firearms (hence: Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms), something it currently cannot do. Again, I'm not saying "WE SHOULD BAN ALL GUNS", which has been suggested by certain members here on AE. I say we need to get smarter about guns. However, guns and mental health are not the only issues that factor into senseless gun crime in the US.

 

Fun fact: For the past several decades, the total amount of crime has decreased significantly. However, conversely, the rate at which crime is reported, the number of news stories featuring crime, as well as gun ownership has increased dramatically. Why? Well, it is my theory, and the theory of others, that mass corporate media, in a bid to increase viewership, has stepped up efforts to put out fear-inducing stories. Again, why? Well, sex and violence sell, and news companies are businesses looking to sell. Fear keeps people buying, which makes their advertisers happy. But I'm going off into paranoid speculation, and nobody likes that realm

 

Others will point to violent media, violent video games, violent music, and the claim that we have a naturally violent culture dating back to the Pilgrims and such. However other countries have violent movies like Die Hard and Rambo. Germany is universally accepted as the home of violent death metal (Rammstein, anyone?), but the country has 0.8 murders per 100,000 people annually. Japan invented ultra-violent games like Mortal Kombat, and that nation has 0.4 murders per 100,000 people. And as per the claim that we are an inherently violent people, again other countries have equally violent forms of media.

 

So what makes us different? Well, who knows? Honestly there is no one clear cut solution to reducing gun crime. Maybe pumping more funding into mental health and law enforcement will help. Maybe banning guns in general will help (probably not), or maybe banning certain guns will help. Point being, there is no 100% clear cut solution to gun control, and we should not be so quick to point fingers at one particular "issue". I rest my case.

[2ndAcr]

True, story, she gets violent, maybe she has another underlying condition, but she goes friggin nuts. I just know that was the only diagnosis I have heard given.

 

Not pointing any fingers. Until they can legally change the constitution with all States ratifying the change, they need to leave guns alone. I get tired of the arguments. No one with a brain thinks that criminals are going to turn in their guns, it will only be law abiding citizens effected. And I for one refuse to be a victim. Dial 911 and pray the cops show up in time or at all? Not me. It has already been upheld by the courts that Police are not required to respond to a call. See the LA riots for comfirmation.

 

Police are around after the crime has been committed. That is their job, catch the criminal AFTER the fact. Sorry, but that is way too late for me.

 

Comparing violent death rates is a hard one with other countries, we are 3X or more bigger than most countries. I don't rely on the per capita numbers. Same as comparing our drunk driving fatalities with say Russia. Almost same size yet, here in the US everyone owns a car, orders of magnitude more. That throws the numbers off. Plus we have a certain group of thugs that aspire to being gang bangers. 75% of gun deaths in the US are gang related killings. Committed by criminals against criminals. On that one, I have no pity in me about it. If innocents did not get caught in the cross fire, I would pass out the ammo and let them shoot each other all day long.

[Concagh98]

Actually, per capita (100,000 people, a statistic taking into account size of countries) America's violent crime rate is well above Europe's, albeit falling steadily.

[Stevphfeniey]

At the risk of sounding like a prick, but I don't really think kids in foreign countries are exactly equipped to have a discussion about gun control in the United States  

[ChiJohnAok]

At the risk of sounding like a prick, but I don't really think kids in foreign countries are exactly equipped to have a discussion about gun control in the United States  

The viewpoint of children (while they should not be ignored), their life experience is inadequate to make valid decisions.

Furthermore, the viewpoints of someone who is not a US citizen, should be considered the same way. Not ignored, but not entirely relevant because they are not US citizens, more than likely do not have the full grasp of the issue and factors involved, and at the end of the day, because they cannot vote in the US, they have no impact on the matter.

[TheOmnipotentAmerican]

Normally, I don't at all mind the europeans on this forum, but in this thread they have been doing nothing but bashing Americans. Why? Is it because we have a society that generaly believes in civil liberties, and our rights under the constitution? What I find interesting is that the violent crime rate in the UK is 2034 per 100,000 persons, while in the USA it is 403 per 100,000, now granted, the UK's definitions are more lenient, but when brought in to alignment with american definitions it is around 776 per 100,000 persons, which is still significantly higher. So, it seems to me that prohibiting gun ownership does not, in fact reduce violence, it only changes the tool with which the violent crime is commited.

[Stevphfeniey]

Well, stabbings are more fun to watch than shootings  

[Stevphfeniey]

Also, on the subject of American's love for civil liberties. The Patriot Act.