New Aircraft Pricing, Northern and Yuxi want Feedback

Just in case you all aren't aware, the pricing for most aircraft was changed overnight. You will notice about a 50% increase from previous costs. Northern has talked with a few of us and Yuxi and we are all wondering how this will affect gameplay. My guess is we won't know just how the gameplay will be affected until the next world reset. I thought I would bring it to your attention because I guessed that some of you do not regularly visit the issue tracker.

Just in case you all aren't aware, the pricing for most aircraft was changed overnight. You will notice about a 50% increase from previous costs. Northern has talked with a few of us and Yuxi and we are all wondering how this will affect gameplay. My guess is we won't know just how the gameplay will be affected until the next world reset. I thought I would bring it to your attention because I guessed that some of you do not regularly visit the issue tracker.

As stated in the issue tracker, we don't anticipate the changes to have a huge impact upon gameplay, the pricing has long been a bug in AE that needed to be fixed. We couldn't simply change Boeing only otherwise it would effect how people interact with the game, hence we have implemented the 'key players' with the aim of completing the remaining in the near future. Although it is true that some aircraft, especially the most utilised A320 and 737 series have increased in price by a significant amount (~40M for the 738) it is not the same case with all aircraft, some prices decreasing, especially with Embraer and Bombardier.

We of course do appreciate feedback, but the changes shouldn't really impact gameplay, apart from slower initial growth.

If anyone is struggling with the creation of an airline, here are some of my personal top tips for early growth:

• Stick with one aircraft type (lower base costs)
• Take a bond - many airlines in the real world must use this method to raise capita for growth
• Extend leases to reduce lease costs
• Focus on higher profit routes and utilise airport slots
• Create a fair, dynamic and profitable IFS/IFE if it is in your airlines interest

Of course, if people do take issue with the pricing changes and find it more difficult to engage with the game, this is something Yuxi will consider.

Hola (yes I've risen from the dead).

I must say that I, for one, really appreciate higher pricing more reflective of the current market

I know that if someone wants to spam like hell, they'll lease everything, but it may at least curtail a few ridiculous 200+ aircraft orders.

I'm not saying large order are not realistic, simply that it will make the overall game play a little more fair and the higher cost of depreciation may help take some in-game companies down a notch or two in future.

Well, that's my s***ty opinion of this anyways.

Kaibabes.

Hola (yes I've risen from the dead).

 

I must say that I, for one, really appreciate higher pricing more reflective of the current market

 

I know that if someone wants to spam like hell, they'll lease everything, but it may at least curtail a few ridiculous 200+ aircraft orders.

 

I'm not saying large order are not realistic, simply that it will make the overall game play a little more fair and the higher cost of depreciation may help take some in-game companies down a notch or two in future.

 

Well, that's my s***ty opinion of this anyways.

 

 

Kaibabes.

Yeah I definitely agree that the balance needs adjustment. Right now, it shouldn't be so easy to build a 37,000 aircraft airline like I have now. Hopefully it will help curtail the extreme spamlines as well.

A 1950's era Stratocruiser is now $53m??? Tell 'em they're dreaming.

A 1950's era Stratocruiser is now $53m??? Tell 'em they're dreaming.

Sorry, it should be $43M. To clarify, all economic activity in AE is adjusted with inflation to the 2013 value, hence this is why we are presented with this.

I propose aircraft cost nothing. 

I propose aircraft cost nothing. 

I'm sure that will be in the Communist Manifesto for 2018 - we will keep an eye on the election  

If we're back to adjusting AE's Data again, can we PLEASE FIX THE RANGES OF AIRPLANES. A 777-300 CANNOT FLY 8,200 MILES WITH ANY PASSENGER LOAD.

Also, the 777-200 still doesn't have a PW engine option even though it was launched with PW engines. 

Before we start screwing with new changes to the data, can we please deal with the gaping issues that have been persistent for years now.

Would this affect AC purchased b4 this price hike?

If possible would appreciate a list of how much the prices of ac increased/decreased sp we have a better guideline.

Besides that personally i feel increasing the starting amount should be done to reflect the changes in a/c pricing.

I am really in favor of increasing the starting capital. Because even with the $5,000,000 bonds you can only raise just $22.5 million which is not a whole lot with the new costs. And yes it is affecting aircraft right now my leasing costs have doubled sometimes tripled.

Maybe aircrafts should be given for free to non-spamlines and each aircraft must have a base cost of 50M for spamlines (Determined after 20 Years in the Game World)

Would this affect AC purchased b4 this price hike?
If possible would appreciate a list of how much the prices of ac increased/decreased sp we have a better guideline.
Besides that personally i feel increasing the starting amount should be done to reflect the changes in a/c pricing.

If we're back to adjusting AE's Data again, can we PLEASE FIX THE RANGES OF AIRPLANES. A 777-300 CANNOT FLY 8,200 MILES WITH ANY PASSENGER LOAD.
 
Also, the 777-200 still doesn't have a PW engine option even though it was launched with PW engines. 
 
Before we start screwing with new changes to the data, can we please deal with the gaping issues that have been persistent for years now.

Agreed, it has negligible impact on seasoned spamliners, noticeable impact on newbie spamliners and severe impact on AE newbies.

User feedbacks are often misleading since most posters think they know more than they actually do.

Its the fact that AE uses a crappy payload, range and runway length calculation, which means you get issues like this. Been saying that for years, yet there are no corrections for it?

The coding is generalised, thus the game uses a standardised payload curve instead of one specific to each aircraft. As you'd appreciate this game is based on a volunteer network therefore change is slower. The fact the game is still here suggests something is being done right. Yuxi and developers have more insight on this than I do.

 

 

Back to the issue at hand, pricing should go upward on a curve with time, in tune with inflation. Or however the pricing curve was irl. the ticket prices are out of wack for early worlds, and the whole demand calc is screwed up.

The game is based on fixed economics, it has never claimed nor at this time aims to follow inflation. Again, something difficult and time consuming to code. (I would assume)

 

 

I'm sorry Northern, this issue isn't just data. It seriously requires someone with actual alrine industry knowledge to educate you, the rest of the DCs and Yuxi about what is right and wrong in the whole game. It will never be perfect but the assumptions made are just terrible. 

Not productive or relevant to this discussion, if you have any comments, please use an appropriate thread and channel your grievances in a respectable and mature way.

 

 

Where do you even get your pricing? From the aircraft maker? Hell its even hard for me to get that with my industry connections. I've always been a bit skeptical of the data you throw in, and some of the data others throw in too.  

http://www.boeing.co...pany/about-bca/

I have given a link to one example website where I can find data on aircraft pricing.

Please can we have a mature and respectable debate around AE data, otherwise all you are doing is driving developers, mods, DCs and whoever else involved out of what should be a community of shared ideas and development; this is not good for the future of the game, why put time in if all you get is inappropriate comments?

I wasn’t aware of these issues - if you’d like to help, please put something in the issue tracker so we can review these issues. We can’t constantly review the data for all of our aircraft and community interaction is highly important in alllowing us to improve the game and highlight errors.

I've brought this issue up with the DCs and generally been ignored, and even volunteered to be a data collector with ideas to work around AE's coding to provide a better approximation of aircraft range and input it myself. I had good conversations with Yuxi about this, but ultimately it lead nowhere. I can provide you the information about the 777-200 PW engines if you'd like to input the data.

The A340 "classics" have not been touched in terms of pricing, and maintenance costs just exploded because it seems to be related to purchase price. I went for an A333 heavy fleet because the lower maintenance cost offset the slightly higher fuel burn over the A343 (which in reality is well, not true). Now, the A333 in-game has much higher maintenance cost which well, gg my strategy.

Widebodies have lower returns already so in all honesty, a harsher operating climate of lowered profit margins makes me lean towards a "safer" strategy, also known as spamlining.

(I have one "proper" airline and one spamline)

The A340 "classics" have not been touched in terms of pricing, and maintenance costs just exploded because it seems to be related to purchase price. I went for an A333 heavy fleet because the lower maintenance cost offset the slightly higher fuel burn of the A343 (which in reality is well, not true). Now, the A333 in-game has much higher maintenance cost which well, gg my strategy.

Widebodies have lower returns already so in all honesty, a harsher operating climate of lowered profit margins makes me lean towards a "safer" strategy, also known as spamlining.

(I have one "proper" airline and one spamline)

You know I think a few of you guys are missing the point. In my opinion, this game is more of an arcade version of airline simulation as opposed to something more realistic. Is that a bad thing? No! It's not. I quite like this arcade version because I've played many realistic sims that you can buy and, quite frankly, the realism is quite a pain in the ass and time-consuming. I quite like a game where some of the realism is removed and you can let your dreams run wild. Sure, there will be certain realistic things you can't do in the arcade world, like a 757 from SNA, but that doesn't detract from the overall appeal of the game to me.

I quite like making spam lines and I find it kind of fun. You might hate me for this, but at one time I used to hate spam lines too (like earlier in O1 right now, where I can't gain 1st or 2nd place even though my daily pax and mile numbers are 5x the competition) but then I realized THIS IS A GAME. IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE FUN.

You want to know why they haven't implemented changes? IT IS TIME CONSUMING AND THIS GAME IS FREE. FREE. AS IN COSTS 0. NADA. ZIP. ZILCH.

If it's so easy why don't you join the team and make those changes yourself? I'd love to see that. I really despise when people attack Yuxi and the staff because they really do try their best to help you, yet it seems most of you guys give them so much s*** for the things they can't do. Their job doesn't pay you know.

So please. Appreciate this game for what it is. And if you want to deal with the realism then buy a real sim and invest the money.