The ability to research routes without buying gates
#1
Posted 06 May 2005 - 02:05 AM
I was wondering if it would be possible to put in a function that would allow you to research a route completely before you purchase gates at those airports. Right now, it appears that you can get an idea of how much money you will make but you can't get anything concrete.
[Edited on 5/6/2005 by duckbilled]
#2
Posted 06 May 2005 - 02:18 AM
Hopefully this helps!!!!!!
#3
Posted 06 May 2005 - 02:40 AM
Take the LGA-CLT route. Not a lot of competition, ticket prices are pretty nice. For all I know, however, the demand could be really low and the two airlines on that route could be operating at a negative profit margin.
[Edited on 5/6/2005 by duckbilled]
#4
Posted 13 June 2005 - 07:13 AM
You shouldn't have to buy anything to do market research.
There should be a search engine where you can select a city pair, aircraft type and # of frequencies.
Then it would give you an estimated daily profit or loss.
The current logic is backwards, right now market research is a crap shoot.
#5
Posted 15 June 2005 - 06:17 PM
Still, take your time Miller, great work so far
#6
Posted 15 June 2005 - 06:46 PM
No airline in the world would buy gates if they had no idea how much potential income a route could generate.
And this also gives an unfair advantage to players who've already played AE and know what routes are the most profitable.
#7
Posted 15 June 2005 - 08:45 PM
#8
Posted 15 June 2005 - 08:47 PM
"No airline in the world would buy gates if they had no idea how much potential income a route could generate.
And this also gives an unfair advantage to players who've already played AE and know what routes are the most profitable."
The second bit is somewhat true, but its not exactly rocket science. Big cities mean more passengers. That's really all there is to it.
I vehmently disagree with the first bit. Not only do airlines pay for the gates, but they lack the ability to just start and stop the servies like we do. They have to announce the flight before it starts so they can sell tickets ahead of time. If they want to close it they need to give advance warning or they'll piss of customers. They then need to rebook passengers who already hold tickets. Sometimes they get hosed. Take UALs recent NGO service:
April profit/loss on new San Fran-Nagoya service?:
A) Break Even Or Better
$0-$2,000,000 Loss
C) $2,000,000-$4,000,000 Loss
D) $4,000,000-$5,000,000 Loss
E) $5,000,000 or Greater Loss
NGO-SFO (3.12M)... with an average fare of a blistering $362 each way, the correct answer was C!
#9
Posted 15 June 2005 - 11:24 PM
Airlines have a very damn good idea about how much a potential route could generate.
Airlines don't dive into a route willy nilly because a city is "BIG". Airlines do a hell of a lot more research before spendig any money on infrastructure. You're proposition that they don't is simply retarded.
#10
Posted 16 June 2005 - 12:41 AM
#11
Posted 16 June 2005 - 02:03 AM
When you setup a new route there is already a revenue calculator which shows revenue and profit depending on ticket price and market conditions for the route.
All you would have to do to set this up is create a drop down list for:
Departure Airport
Destination
Aircraft type (you could also include aircraft with the different engine types)
# of frequencies
& ticket price
This way players could research routes and make informed, intelligent business decisions. If you want to make it a bit more challenging you can vary the results (-/+ a certain percentage) call it a "revenue ESTIMATE", so you never have perfect results. Just for the PUCKER factor.
And if you're concerned about how easy it is to get rid of gates. Setup gate contracts. If an airline gets rid of a gate before the contract expires then the airline pays a penalty fee.
[Edited on 6/16/2005 by juancho]
#12
Posted 16 June 2005 - 03:01 AM
Not to mention that if Mr. Miller sets up a Market Research tool much of the code is already in place.
Dude that makes it way too easy, just look at the competition and ticket prices and do the math!
[Edited on 6/16/2005 by AirCanada]
#13
Posted 16 June 2005 - 03:09 AM
Originally posted by AirCanada
Not to mention that if Mr. Miller sets up a Market Research tool much of the code is already in place.
Dude that makes it way too easy, just look at the competition and ticket prices and do the math!
[Edited on 6/16/2005 by AirCanada]
Acctually if miller made the game in Java I bet I could do something like this in a quick 20-30 minutes. Most of it is just coping the same code and changing it a little here and there.
#14
Posted 16 June 2005 - 04:22 AM
Dude that makes it way too easy, just look at the competition and ticket prices and do the math!
You're a real genious Sandeep...
What if no one is flying a route you're interested in setting up?
With the current setup you have no way of knowing, so planning anything in the future is a crap shoot.
For example right now no one is flying Honolulu to Sydney. How would any player know if that route could support a 747 or A380 and how much revenue it could generate? The only way to find out is to buy the gates first then use the Revenue calculator to really find out. It's backwards!!!!!!!!!!!
In the real world no airline in their right mind would ever operate like that.
This is only a suggestion to make AE more realistic and better than it already is.
And if you guys really want a level playing field this tool would even it out for everyone. Because right now with the current setup the veteran players who've already experimented with different routes have an unfair advantage.
[Edited on 6/16/2005 by juancho]
[Edited on 6/16/2005 by juancho]
#15
Posted 16 June 2005 - 04:27 AM
Acctually if miller made the game in Java I bet I could do something like this in a quick 20-30 minutes. Most of it is just coping the same code and changing it a little here and there.
I agree. Much of the code is already in place through the revenue calculator. It's just a matter of adding new fields, some drop down lists and setting it up as a seperate tool.
#16
Posted 16 June 2005 - 06:42 AM
1) I agree with you - we need a better market research method.
2) I have a calculator next to my PC whenever I play AE, because I do the mathematics
3) It does not matter what plane you put on the SYD-HNL sector, eventually some idiot will come along and try to undercut you with something like a DC-8-50.
4) You have made your point well, you argued well, but it looks like you have lost. I suggest you pick your battles carefully.
#17
Posted 16 June 2005 - 09:01 AM
Originally posted by Chicken
Juancho
1) I agree with you - we need a better market research method.
2) I have a calculator next to my PC whenever I play AE, because I do the mathematics
3) It does not matter what plane you put on the SYD-HNL sector, eventually some idiot will come along and try to undercut you with something like a DC-8-50.
4) You have made your point well, you argued well, but it looks like you have lost. I suggest you pick your battles carefully.
With the current setup in AE there is no serious market research method so every AE player loses in the long run.
As far as I'm concerned they can take our suggestions and shove it. They built it so they can do whatever they feel like.
But remember these guys don't have a monopoly for online airline business sims. It's a free market. Eventually others will make a better version. If the developers want to be smug about user suggestions more power to them.
[Edited on 6/16/2005 by juancho]
#18
Posted 19 June 2005 - 10:08 PM
Today I spent $3 million leasing and returning gates (including 1-time fee + 1 month lease). After experimenting with countless routes, it turns out the one I had at the very beginning was the best. So that p*ssed me off quite a bit.
Some of you say that the market research tool is unnecessary. I disagree.
Without the tool, how can you tell which route would be more profitable: DTW-SFO or ORD-SEA?
There is no competition on either route, and the distance is about the same. Chicago is larger than Detroit, but San Francisco (and the Bay area) is larger than Seattle. The combined gate costs of DTW+SFO is the same as that of ORD+SEA, yet one route makes practically twice as much money as the other. And that would be ORD-SEA.
So I think it is better to implement this tool sooner rather than later. It would be beneficial for all.
#19
Posted 19 June 2005 - 10:13 PM
#20
Posted 19 June 2005 - 10:36 PM
Originally posted by drv4truk
Well, if a market research tool is implemented, then I think you would have to pay for it. IRL airlines have to pay for market research, unless they are just copying other airlines routes, so why shouldn't you? For now, just consider your gate leasing expenses part of the cost for market research.
Yes I would be willing to pay for the market research tool. As long as it isn't $3 million.
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