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The ability to research routes without buying gates

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#1
duckbilled

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Please forgive me if I am missing something.

I was wondering if it would be possible to put in a function that would allow you to research a route completely before you purchase gates at those airports. Right now, it appears that you can get an idea of how much money you will make but you can't get anything concrete.

[Edited on 5/6/2005 by duckbilled]

#2
Maestro69

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You just click on the airport on the gates page, and it will provide a list of what destinations which are served from that airport, the freqeuncies and the prices on those routes and also, how many competitors are on those routes aswell!!!

Hopefully this helps!!!!!! :D

#3
duckbilled

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Thanks. I know that you can do that but I don't think it gives a very complete picture or a formula that will tell you how much money you will make, with a given aircraft and a given number of frequencies. The only way to get an actual number is to buy the gates.

Take the LGA-CLT route. Not a lot of competition, ticket prices are pretty nice. For all I know, however, the demand could be really low and the two airlines on that route could be operating at a negative profit margin.

[Edited on 5/6/2005 by duckbilled]

#4
juancho

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The way it's setup right now is backwards.

You shouldn't have to buy anything to do market research.

There should be a search engine where you can select a city pair, aircraft type and # of frequencies.

Then it would give you an estimated daily profit or loss.

The current logic is backwards, right now market research is a crap shoot.

#5
StephenM

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Well, how much market research is actually in there? Like was said above, you need to commit on a route before you can research it. I've lost a bit of cash because of this, not a nice feeling!:)

Still, take your time Miller, great work so far :)

#6
juancho

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I've wasted millions buying gates so I could try different routes. THis isn't the way it should be.

No airline in the world would buy gates if they had no idea how much potential income a route could generate.

And this also gives an unfair advantage to players who've already played AE and know what routes are the most profitable.

#7
Pathos

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You don't have to buy the gates first...Just check how many airlines are on the route you want,What their prices are and take it from there with a little math....Thats part of the fun of the game...Figuring out stuff for yourself;)

#8
doug_Or

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Well I'll just go ahead be my old disagreeable self. I think we get too much market research as it is now. Airlines know what the current prices on a route are and how big the markets are. So do we.

"No airline in the world would buy gates if they had no idea how much potential income a route could generate.

And this also gives an unfair advantage to players who've already played AE and know what routes are the most profitable."

The second bit is somewhat true, but its not exactly rocket science. Big cities mean more passengers. That's really all there is to it.

I vehmently disagree with the first bit. Not only do airlines pay for the gates, but they lack the ability to just start and stop the servies like we do. They have to announce the flight before it starts so they can sell tickets ahead of time. If they want to close it they need to give advance warning or they'll piss of customers. They then need to rebook passengers who already hold tickets. Sometimes they get hosed. Take UALs recent NGO service:


April profit/loss on new San Fran-Nagoya service?:

A) Break Even Or Better
:) $0-$2,000,000 Loss
C) $2,000,000-$4,000,000 Loss
D) $4,000,000-$5,000,000 Loss
E) $5,000,000 or Greater Loss



NGO-SFO (3.12M)... with an average fare of a blistering $362 each way, the correct answer was C!

#9
juancho

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BS

Airlines have a very damn good idea about how much a potential route could generate.

Airlines don't dive into a route willy nilly because a city is "BIG". Airlines do a hell of a lot more research before spendig any money on infrastructure. You're proposition that they don't is simply retarded.

#10
Syrami764

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There's tons of research that airlines do when choosing a new route. Like juancho said airlines don't just dive into new routes. Probably a few months worth of studying and counting numbers from an area to another area and then when they decide to launch the route it doesn't start for a few months so that travelers can find out about the route. I agree there should be an easier way of checking routes

#11
juancho

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Not to mention that if Mr. Miller sets up a Market Research tool much of the code is already in place.

When you setup a new route there is already a revenue calculator which shows revenue and profit depending on ticket price and market conditions for the route.

All you would have to do to set this up is create a drop down list for:

Departure Airport
Destination
Aircraft type (you could also include aircraft with the different engine types)
# of frequencies
& ticket price

This way players could research routes and make informed, intelligent business decisions. If you want to make it a bit more challenging you can vary the results (-/+ a certain percentage) call it a "revenue ESTIMATE", so you never have perfect results. Just for the PUCKER factor.

And if you're concerned about how easy it is to get rid of gates. Setup gate contracts. If an airline gets rid of a gate before the contract expires then the airline pays a penalty fee.

[Edited on 6/16/2005 by juancho]

#12
Canadian

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Not to mention that if Mr. Miller sets up a Market Research tool much of the code is already in place.


Dude that makes it way too easy, just look at the competition and ticket prices and do the math! :) :mad: :)

[Edited on 6/16/2005 by AirCanada]

#13
ithboy

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Originally posted by AirCanada


Not to mention that if Mr. Miller sets up a Market Research tool much of the code is already in place.


Dude that makes it way too easy, just look at the competition and ticket prices and do the math! :) :mad: :)

[Edited on 6/16/2005 by AirCanada]


Acctually if miller made the game in Java I bet I could do something like this in a quick 20-30 minutes. Most of it is just coping the same code and changing it a little here and there.

#14
juancho

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Dude that makes it way too easy, just look at the competition and ticket prices and do the math! :) :mad: :)


You're a real genious Sandeep...

What if no one is flying a route you're interested in setting up?

With the current setup you have no way of knowing, so planning anything in the future is a crap shoot.

For example right now no one is flying Honolulu to Sydney. How would any player know if that route could support a 747 or A380 and how much revenue it could generate? The only way to find out is to buy the gates first then use the Revenue calculator to really find out. It's backwards!!!!!!!!!!!

In the real world no airline in their right mind would ever operate like that.

This is only a suggestion to make AE more realistic and better than it already is.

And if you guys really want a level playing field this tool would even it out for everyone. Because right now with the current setup the veteran players who've already experimented with different routes have an unfair advantage.

[Edited on 6/16/2005 by juancho]

[Edited on 6/16/2005 by juancho]

#15
juancho

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Acctually if miller made the game in Java I bet I could do something like this in a quick 20-30 minutes. Most of it is just coping the same code and changing it a little here and there.


I agree. Much of the code is already in place through the revenue calculator. It's just a matter of adding new fields, some drop down lists and setting it up as a seperate tool.

#16
Chicken

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Juancho

1) I agree with you - we need a better market research method.
2) I have a calculator next to my PC whenever I play AE, because I do the mathematics
3) It does not matter what plane you put on the SYD-HNL sector, eventually some idiot will come along and try to undercut you with something like a DC-8-50.
4) You have made your point well, you argued well, but it looks like you have lost. I suggest you pick your battles carefully.

#17
juancho

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Originally posted by Chicken
Juancho

1) I agree with you - we need a better market research method.
2) I have a calculator next to my PC whenever I play AE, because I do the mathematics
3) It does not matter what plane you put on the SYD-HNL sector, eventually some idiot will come along and try to undercut you with something like a DC-8-50.
4) You have made your point well, you argued well, but it looks like you have lost. I suggest you pick your battles carefully.


With the current setup in AE there is no serious market research method so every AE player loses in the long run.

As far as I'm concerned they can take our suggestions and shove it. They built it so they can do whatever they feel like.

But remember these guys don't have a monopoly for online airline business sims. It's a free market. Eventually others will make a better version. If the developers want to be smug about user suggestions more power to them.

[Edited on 6/16/2005 by juancho]

#18
Crazy764

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Just wanted to revisit this thread.

Today I spent $3 million leasing and returning gates (including 1-time fee + 1 month lease). After experimenting with countless routes, it turns out the one I had at the very beginning was the best. So that p*ssed me off quite a bit. :mad:

Some of you say that the market research tool is unnecessary. I disagree.
Without the tool, how can you tell which route would be more profitable: DTW-SFO or ORD-SEA?

There is no competition on either route, and the distance is about the same. Chicago is larger than Detroit, but San Francisco (and the Bay area) is larger than Seattle. The combined gate costs of DTW+SFO is the same as that of ORD+SEA, yet one route makes practically twice as much money as the other. And that would be ORD-SEA.

So I think it is better to implement this tool sooner rather than later. It would be beneficial for all.

#19
drv4truk

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Well, if a market research tool is implemented, then I think you would have to pay for it. IRL airlines have to pay for market research, unless they are just copying other airlines routes, so why shouldn't you? For now, just consider your gate leasing expenses part of the cost for market research. :(

#20
Crazy764

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Originally posted by drv4truk
Well, if a market research tool is implemented, then I think you would have to pay for it. IRL airlines have to pay for market research, unless they are just copying other airlines routes, so why shouldn't you? For now, just consider your gate leasing expenses part of the cost for market research. :(


Yes I would be willing to pay for the market research tool. As long as it isn't $3 million.




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