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Gate hogging at an all new level

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#1
drv4truk

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Have to rant on this one again. Gate hogging is an epidemic that should be put down. It is a serious problem and one of the reasons the gates are not lasting as long as they used to. Just look at DFW-DAL and ORD-MKE or ORD-IND. It is really sad that some airlines felt the need to take over 50 gates (25+ each) from DFW alone in one day. Enjoy your losses, payback is a real ...
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#2
travelhouse

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Well PSA is right, a few of us have called for some restrictions on the gates, Hogging like taking all off the market is a sin towards other players. taking a few like 20 to keep ya airline going is fine, most good players can make it OK with 20 gates and make the funds with larger jets later to terminal their location, so I have to agree with PSA

#3
Riddim_Killa

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Here is another example ATL-BHM

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#4
galapagapop

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Happened to me last round in DEN, Axel had 40+ gates going to COS

But there is a competitive problem with terminal building.

In DEN and SAN I've had expierences building terminals to just release large numbers of gates, and I think it really does hurt you rather than help you. But we'll see
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#5
kenpalm

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It is perhaps ok to hold gates if the number being help is consistent with your aircraft delivery schedule. However if it is being done to keep out competition then it is not in the best interest of the game.

#6
LOT 737-300

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Isn't putting a bunch of planes on a route like Henri's Airways also a way to activate a bug?

#7
drv4truk

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Henri's is one of the airlines I was speaking of. With 26 DFW and 26 DAL gates in one day, guess what he's planning on doing with them?
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#8
Maestro69

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Well, apart from losing money on the gate cost front, perhaps starts some ops and make ur life impossible. He sort of done the same thing last round aswell, and if not wrong, at DFW too...

Some people just cant never learn new ways :sdrool:

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#9
kenpalm

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Isn't putting a bunch of planes on a route like Henri's Airways also a way to activate a bug?


I dont think that this is the intention of Henri. He and I had a fierce battle in Atlanta last round and I found him to be a keen and honest competitor. We both made the top 10 with each having less than 25 gates. Therefore I dont see the need for him now to have over 50 gates with a utilisation of 32% outside of hie ATl-BHM routes. I cant see him effectively using more than 30 gates in the immediate future as he is not earning the cash to purchase airframes to fill those slots. I hope he reconsiders his strategy and dump the excess gates. He is too good a player to be relying on this approach.

Having said that I support moderate retention of gates in anticipaton of the delivery of aircraft.

#10
LOT 737-300

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I support holding gates when waiting for a new plane too, though I don't usually practice that now. But holding over 24 gates in two cities just for new delivieries? I don't think this should be taken lightly as it ruins the game for those who are just starting to get it right in the game.

But there was a group of three airlines last round that decided to put alot of planes on one route, and this activated something like the LF bug I think.

#11
doug_Or

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Well Colgan is now doing it on DEN-COS. Kind of funny, since neither was in short supply before he bought a bazzilion gates.

#12
LOT 737-300

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Super, just great. These are like the top 25 airlines, but its pretty low behavior in my opinion if they must do that. I think that there must be action to be taken, espeically since they help encourage those famous 1 dollar fares that piss us all off by setting their fares at like 50 bucks and with some 100-200 frequencies.

#13
Timsher

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TW was going to change this (or do something) last round, but I guess decided not to or forgot. http://forums.airlin...read.php?t=4234

I wish it would stop too, but as long as it helps airlines to win people will do it. Proof of this was during the last round, Ajax did this to me while I was majority leader (or tied with ajax, I can't remember when exactly she overtook me) at MCO, and we all know how that turned out.


As I can see it, three things can change this from occurring:
1) No routes under 100nm (wouldn't stop it, but would curtail it a bit)
2) No more than 10 freqs between any two cities with all aircraft (so if you have 10x on a route you can't place another aircraft there, again wouldn't stop it, but would curtail it)
3) Limit gates to 25 per airline per airport (I like this one best, but it's also the most extreme, would definitely stop mass hoarding and would encourage airlines to drop gates for terminals later in the game, lessening the gate crisis we run into). This is also probably the easiest to code because there is already a set limit of like 95 (correct me if I'm wrong).
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#14
LOT 737-300

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I like that. Maybe increase the max frequency to 20 (as much as I hate it, still, you got the remember the little guys), and maybe 50 gates per airport max should be the standard. Only part I disagree with is no routes under 100nm, I don't operate any for rather obvious reasons, but sometimes, they can be useful. But maybe the minimum distance should be 25 or 50 nm. Those shouldn't even be money makers, so they should be removed. Other than that, I like that.

#15
Slennox

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Gate hoggers deserve a slow and painful death. Seriously, I'm really pissed with this damn thing.

There is massive hogging in all major aiports this round. AE is not intended to be played this way.

Which frustrates me most, is that they are always the same 4 or 5 people who hog all the gates. Don't you know how to win without hogging? What would happen if all of us start to hog gates? :thumbdown: :thumbdown: :thumbdown:

Hope this could be stopped some way in the next AE version.
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#16
kenpalm

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http://forums.airlineempires.net/showthread.php?t=4234[/url]

I wish it would stop too, but as long as it helps airlines to win people will do it. Proof of this was during the last round, Ajax did this to me while I was majority leader (or tied with ajax, I can't remember when exactly she overtook me) at MCO, and we all know how that turned out.


As I can see it, three things can change this from occurring:
1) No routes under 100nm (wouldn't stop it, but would curtail it a bit)
2) No more than 10 freqs between any two cities with all aircraft (so if you have 10x on a route you can't place another aircraft there, again wouldn't stop it, but would curtail it)
3) Limit gates to 25 per airline per airport (I like this one best, but it's also the most extreme, would definitely stop mass hoarding and would encourage airlines to drop gates for terminals later in the game, lessening the gate crisis we run into). This is also probably the easiest to code because there is already a set limit of like 95 (correct me if I'm wrong).


Last round I maxed out at a DOP of $45 million in Atlanta with only 25 gates. I would definitely support a limit of between 25 and 30. Any requirement above that should be by way on contructing a teminal.

#17
dbrown511

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I could go with that, after 25 gates you must construct a terminal, seems reasonable.

#18
drv4truk

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I can't agree with the first two. There are some routes where you can successfully manage 12-18 frequencies per day and all airlines can still make a profit. At least until the hub benfits kick in for the larger airlines. I don't care for not having less than 100nm routes, because there are a few of them in real life. I would like to see even lower profits or even penalties for them. That would cure some of that.

As for limiting gates, I would think you are headed in the right direction, but there shouldn't be a limit on the max number of gates you can have. Two or three rounds ago I had a 65-70 gate terminal at LAX and had 90% utilization. So, it is possible that you would need more than 25 gates. I would think a cap on the number of gates you can lease per day from the same airport would be better. For regional aircraft, you may need 1-3 gates per aircraft. For larger aircraft you probably only need 1 and maybe rarely 2 gates. So, I would think a 3 gate per AE day per airport would be a sufficiet cap. That would stop the hogs and should make them focus on route building. This also adds to the strategy. If you are only allowed three gates and have two brand new aircraft coming, then you need to plan your routes accordingly so you have enough gates for the aircraft.
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#19
travelhouse

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Like the suggestion you said PSA:

I would think a cap on the number of gates you can lease per day


The programming needed for this would be a simple one to include, this is a very valid suggestion as then if the market has 20 gates left, the max you can secure (Say 3 or 5) would be ample for any player.

Then again, there has to be a cap limit or then the Hogger will take 5 per change-over and still take the lot.

So I still feel that there need to be an upper-limit and any more you Must terminal that location.

#20
drv4truk

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So I still feel that there need to be an upper-limit and any more you Must terminal that location.


Then 25 would be a good upper limit. At that point you should be able to build a terminal and have as many as you need (within the airports limit).
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