58 replies to this topic

[StephenM]

Reno - Go study Economics...

[Reno]

Reno - Go study Economics...

Stephen - Go *random insult* yourself...
*the classic oldie, but a goodie*

No but seriously, quit being a douche and make a relevant post. I think this topic should have been closed ages ago, oh well.....

*Supply and demand "was implemented" in the worst way I could ever see it. If I was one of these brokers, I would try the classic "value + *a percentage*" what happened was more along the lines of "value + *RAPE*" oh well, the heat has mostly died down on this subject, though its morons like you who beat this crap to death*

[AeroLinear]

yo apparently u never learned about true capitalism. the little guy always gets crushed under the iron fist of the bigger ones. it's economical darwinism. you happen to be the weaker link

[etlien]

stop moaning. This is airline empires not airline charities

[WingsOTWorld]

Yeah Reno...sorry to kinda come in on this...but just let them be. You can source your aircraft elsewhere.

[Reno]

yo apparently u never learned about true capitalism. the little guy always gets crushed under the iron fist of the bigger ones. it's economical darwinism. you happen to be the weaker link

Yep.

stop moaning. This is airline empires not airline charities

Be quiet

Yeah Reno...sorry to kinda come in on this...but just let them be. You can source your aircraft elsewhere.

True, but a few people are just so nice, good sources... Oh well.


Lets just lock this damn topic, since its turning into "lets flame the guy with with an honest opinion about what happened" , holy crap, thats exactly what happened.

[AeroLinear]

An honest opinion can still be an inaccurate one (disclaimer: I'm not keeping this alive because I want to flame you, I just like to flesh out a good argument). You say it is unwise for brokers to try to find the market's equilibrium. You didn't use those exact words. However, the brokers don't sell for you to get cheap prices on planes; they sell to make a profit. The equilibrium price will be the one where their supply intersects with the demand. If there is enough demand to turn a greater profit by raising prices, then that is the wisest thing for them to do. If there is not, then you will see the sellers lower their prices as soon as they realize they are no longer making as good a profit. Economics isn't a rule that sellers and buyers abide by, but the natural way the market works. If the seller charges higher than equilibrium, the seller will suffer because the buyer will not buy. If he charges lower than equilibrium, again he will suffer because he will run out of supply to meet the demand for his product. So let the sellers sell for whatever price they see fit, and use your cash to cast your vote hence or thence.

[Reno]

An honest opinion can still be an inaccurate one (disclaimer: I'm not keeping this alive because I want to flame you, I just like to flesh out a good argument). You say it is unwise for brokers to try to find the market's equilibrium. You didn't use those exact words. However, the brokers don't sell for you to get cheap prices on planes; they sell to make a profit. The equilibrium price will be the one where their supply intersects with the demand. If there is enough demand to turn a greater profit by raising prices, then that is the wisest thing for them to do. If there is not, then you will see the sellers lower their prices as soon as they realize they are no longer making as good a profit. Economics isn't a rule that sellers and buyers abide by, but the natural way the market works. If the seller charges higher than equilibrium, the seller will suffer because the buyer will not buy. If he charges lower than equilibrium, again he will suffer because he will run out of supply to meet the demand for his product. So let the sellers sell for whatever price they see fit, and use your cash to cast your vote hence or thence.

Smartest thing I read all day.

That aint flaming because you made your point clear instead of the other morons here posting "Go study Economics" or "go learn about supply and demand" thats really assinine. Like I said before, the hike is what really got me off balence, I was able to purchase an aircraft a day, and the sellers seemed to make enough profit. The good news is that other people are trying to bring back the stable market.

[steve68]

Well one last thought from me on this subject. I don't mind so much the high prices yes i thought it was a bit much so I dealt with it. The bigger issue I see is the possibility of scaring off the newer smaller airlines. Its very hard starting late. Now imagine you rarely can aquire gates. People with low fares to feed there hubs. And now yet another frustration. Thats what i ask each and every one of you active players. Do we really want it so hard that we rarely get any fresh players to join us ???? Of course none of the things i listed are wrong my question would be "Is it smart"

Steve

[WingsOTWorld]

Lol...Reno..AeroLinear and Aer Solas all gave you the same answer cept Stephen asked you to research yourself, while Dave did some of the researching himself for you. Dont just burst out cursing at everyone...sure I think Stephen was insulting you, but you could have done something like "Well you know i would...but its summer vacation now...duh"...something less harsh.....before the mods get really, really angry at you. Cause...for the most part...the mods here aren't super strict like on some other forums.

[airbigos]

It would much cooler to have have 2 ways to play, cause as it stands now, being a broker doesn't really pay. The demand is there, just the supply lines are choked. Maybe TW can throw in something special for people that just want to do broker/leasing

[steve68]

That is an interesting comment Airbigos perhaps when you exceed a certain amount of frames ordered you get 4 instead of 2 or something along those lines. Or perhaps a leasing set up of some sort.

Steve

[ICEHOCEY77]

That is an interesting comment Airbigos perhaps when you exceed a certain amount of frames ordered you get 4 instead of 2 or something along those lines. Or perhaps a leasing set up of some sort.

Steve

Sounds good in theory, but I can see people abusing the system, you'd really have to order a lot to get the bonus. The Leasing thing is a great idea, I hope someone can come up with a way to do it for V3.

[Alex_Stankevitch]

Leasing would also help for the little guy, they wouldnt have to be buying new planes but just leasing them, that way they would be saving money up front while they earn enough to buy a new aircraft for themselfs.

There could also be different prices for how long you want to lease the aircraft for. Something like 1 million per month for a year and 750,000 per month for 3 years.

Anyone get this idea?

[WingsOTWorld]

I agree with leasing...just keep the prices low for small props, and high for the big widebodies.

[ICEHOCEY77]

I agree with leasing...just keep the prices low for small props, and high for the big widebodies.

mm I'd like to see the free market economy used, you shouldn't be dictating a cap on prices, but naturally you would expect lower prices for props and higher for widebodies.

[WingsOTWorld]

Welll...at least have a cap inplace in the beginning i say...maybe the first 2 years. So someone like AE Admin begins leasing beeches at something highly affordable and then lets the reigns loose or something....w/e...so long as we have the opportunity to lease, im good.

[airbigos]

On the other hand, that will intro saturation twice as fast.
What I was going with is if you are broker, then you can't operate any routes, and vice versa, as long as you operate routes you can't get the bonus deliveries as broker would. Still can play in the used market thou.

[Alex_Stankevitch]

But some people are both, like Geesh (What A Struggle). I am a bit of both aswell.

I buy planes from by broker who offers me them cheap and then sell them for cheaper than the competition on the market.