44 replies to this topic

[Britannia]

Thanks for hosting, Boing!

[Boing the Ostrich]

Disagree with number one, while the livery is probably number 1 or 2. The fleet are extremely unrealistic, For an airlines that isn't that big, they have too many aircraft model on their fleet. A380 and B747-400/-8 is Extremely unrealistic, especially with B777-300ER on their fleet. This is a major red flag from the start. The font is great but the logo is extremely similar to Saudi Arabian Airlines. It have no configs for the fleet it listed, which is a major problems.

 

Algerien fleet are extremely realistic with it's configs and the type of plane they use, the livery is Unsafe and perfect. Many airlines try to have this modern and minimalist livery in real life and fail. (Looking at you Lufthansa). There is tons of tiny details that make this livery and airlines one of the best one. 

 

Maghreb have the best history, logo, livery and fleet considerations. To me, The judge fails to take the main concept of real life airlines in hand. The complexity of the information is important. I think the livery is the most realistic in real life especially the retro livery.

 

I'd like to add this. The airline has an aging fleet and is currently in the process of replacing the older aircraft, that's why it's so big. I clearly stated that in my entry, had you read it, you would've known. The A380 was added for flights in the Hajj season and there are only like 3-5 in the fleet. The 747-8i is the replacement of the -400, also stated that in my post. A lot of airlines have both the 77W, 744, 748 and A380 in the their fleet so I don't see that being a red flag. While the logo does look similar to Saudia's, it was the only way for me to show that it is a national carrier and that it carried the country and it is the country's emblem. You know? The thing you used in your livery as well. It also has a cargo subsidiary, which I merged with the main fleet for this contest. As for the config, they are all based on the routes the aircraft will be put on and the demand on said route. Now if you wanna continue this chat, PM me and don't ruin this thread.

 

 

That's my point, the B747-8, B777-300ER and A380 combo is a no-no.

The fact that the airline only have 3-5 A380 in the fleet and for Hajj primarily, makes it more unrealistic. Either way, cheers for the number 1 spot 

 

I feel like I should address this. 

 

1. Referring to guideline 5: "Writing a story or history is not required, but will be considered." Why do you think I would say it is not required? That's because I would be just as happy, and it would have made my life and the commentary a lot easier and more straightforward, if I had required simply a logo and livery alone for entries. What makes the stories worth consideration to me is when they present a conceptualization of the airline I could not have taken from the design alone, or could have risked missing major design details without. Therefore, I only paid attention to the stories presented when they presented a gross mis-conceptualization or exaggeration of what Middle Eastern airlines should look like. In my opinion, the realism of the airline's operation can always be tackled later on with some advice. What's more immediate to this contest is the design itself. Yes, the overall concept of the airline influence the airline, and without a basic concept a design can be misunderstood, but for myself, all I need is a basic understanding of what the airline aims for and I can make my own judgment.
    
2. Even while considering the aforementioned point I don't see as much of a problem as you make out, and only reveals your inexperience with these carriers. I am quite confused by your claim that this is an airline that "isn't that big." This is annoyingly simple to say. If you gauge the size of this airline by what a ME3 mega-carrier look like, sure, it is comparatively small. But using this sort of gauge in the first place is a distorted way of looking at what a Middle Eastern carrier should be. This same problem you displayed with Muscatair: a complete disregard for the "main concept of real life airlines" and the "complexity of the information" surrounding what goes into an Arab carrier. As for a Saudi Carrier, I find the fleet acceptable, given that Saudia operates 3 growing hubs + a focus city and hajj operations. The fleet almost directly corresponds to Saudia's current fleet. Mind you the exact number of each type is not specified, and the entry clearly specified that some of these aircraft are being replaced with other types. So how can you be sure that they only operate 4 767s for extra capacity, for example, and are going to be absorbed into a more coherent Dreamliner fleet?
    
3. I did not explicitly ask for any seating configurations or the likes. Again, guideline 5 gives you the liberty to include a story or history, and some participants decided to include a seating chart as part of the rule it seems. I did not require it, as I did not expect it. If anything, I decided to accept it as a supplementary piece to your story. Why should you decide it is a "major problem"?
    
4. To address the fleet in detail. Let's start off with observing that the fleet seems quite Airbus focused, initially. The first column of text is completely acceptable, from the meager narrowbody selection to the diverse selection of Airbus widebodies. At least in an AE perspective, you can see how the diversity of widebodies is due to Airbus's own shortcomings in their fleet capabilities. The similar types are weighed against their very different range capabilities. The next column is where you can see the stretch in the overall approach to the fleet. The change in narrowbody aircraft seems to indicate a possible transition out of the A320 series, as Egyptair seems to have done (and seems to be reversing, changing to the NEO series), all with a much smaller fleet not just in this regard but also overall. Meanwhile, Egyptair operates a mixed narrowbody fleet. The choice of the 757 is rather strange, seeing as the airline operates the A321 and the A332. However, this can be overlooked as there may be a need for the 757s unique capabilities. The 767 is also acceptable, especially as a transition aircraft or aircraft that was leased for extra capacity (correlates to Saudia, which has leased such aircraft). 
   As for the 747, 777, and A380 concern. It is indeed a stretch, in my opinion at least, to operate all three types, though not unimaginable. Looking at Lufthansa, the airline operates all three, albeit switching the 77W for the A346. Moreover, the airline operates the A350 and has ordered the 77X while maintaining the 747 an A380 fleet. This trumps the "77W/748/A380" together is a no-no, generally speaking.
   Yes, as a matter of scale Saudia is different, but they currently operate the 747 (and up until recently, the -300 variant as well) along with the 777-300ER, although I admit the 777 is its direct replacement. Because we do not yet know the exact numbers of the fleet, I did not have much concern. Who knows, maybe the airline got a good deal for a few jumbos to prop up the image of the 748i? That would make the 77W and the 747 together acceptable in my opinion. However, the A380 here is the stretch. Knowing the Saudi market, it is not as sustainable for the all three to operate commercially. Not impossible, however, if all three have their own niche. Looking at Malaysia Airlines as an example, they planned to use their A380s for Hajj Charters though (at least wanted to) use them commercially as well.
   I, of course, question why the airline chose A380s exclusively for their Hajj charters (which do require enormous capacity, but in fluctuating amounts so multiple types are assigned), instead of a few more 747s, but hey they might have struck a deal for some used dense A380s? Maybe they decided to switch out those 747s early when the A380 was announced and kept a small fleet for that reason? All it takes is a little imagination. That imagination factor doesn't necessarily make it unrealistic.
   It honestly makes more sense for them to be switched, with a small fleet of pax and freighter 747s operating hajj, freight, and simply for the image of having the plane. Overall, a stretch sure but not nearly as ridiculously inappropriate as you claim. Moreover, as it is not a major part of my evaluation and the error is not major in itself, it, therefore, does not raise a major concern.
    
5. Hajj charters are governed by very strict capacity and frequency regulations. I can't recall the exact regulations anymore, but it might as well turn out that A380s are not allowed to service these routes for capacity reasons or so. This level of detail I did not expect from entries.
    
6. Algerien was never considered a poor entry, I thought that was made clear in terms of the commentary given and the overall ranking it received. I am not sure what you want to say by calling it unsafe, but if you mean its a totally original Avante-Garde sort of design, then no. It's more clearly inspired by Air Algerie. This is not a bad thing, so to speak, as sometimes that inspiration from RL carriers brings about originality. And as I made clear in the commentary, its overall high design quality and attention to detail is impeccable but is weighed against what it lacks. Its position is well deserved for a well-made design. In all honesty, Iraqi caused a real upset in how well it performed, stealing third place from Jumeirah and Alaouite (because they did have clear problems), and from Algerien because of its thin lead in other areas.
    
7. Again, Maghreb Air had its exceptional strong points but also very clear weak points. The logo and titles, both modern and retro, are absolutely perfect and quite deserving of the runner-up position or higher alone. However, the modern livery is a disappointment and needed some more thought and detailing to elevate its quality.
   Referring to guideline 4: "You can assume this airline operates in modern times (2010–). Exclusively historical submissions will not be considered. Brand timelines/evolutions may be considered if a modern livery is included." While the historical livery is much more promising indeed, it is not my main consideration for entries and is, therefore, a purely supplementary item that has minimally influenced my decision. Therefore, if you say Maghreb Air has the "best history, logo, livery, and fleet considerations" you'll find that only two of four are especially important to me, and two purely supplementary. 
   
   This brings me to my closing note:
   
   I fully respect your opinion on the entries as a matter of principle. However, your inexperience and insensitivity with Middle Eastern carriers in addition to your confusion over the overall aim and standards of this competition award neither substantive nor authoritative value.
    

[Boing the Ostrich]

 

Thank you, everyone, for your kind words and support for this competition. I hope to grow this event into a great resource for Arabic airline brand development on AE with similar contests and activities. 

 

I would also like to congratulate our participants once more, especially for the great sportsmanship displayed by everyone after the entry placements were announced. Please take this opportunity to develop your brands and refine them. I am always available for help. 

 

Stay tuned for more developments! 

[Boing the Ostrich]

The AE Arabic Design Contest is back for its 2019 edition! Bigger and better than ever, check out this year's rules and guidelines here.