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Why does Zortan hate A320s so much?


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#41
zortan

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Jesus, you guys are overactive! I only slept for 10 hours :P 

Fair enough that the A320 cockpit could be better, but that's just your opinion and your colleagues of course, but BA does happen to fly a lot of A320 series planes. They retired the 737-400, if I'm not mistaken, so maybe a slightly biased sample? :P Another thing, what were the 707 crashes due to the new Boeing controls, I may be ignorant in 50s and 60s crashes, because there were so many, but still. Also, while AF447 or whatever it was was mainly caused by the FO ignoring the stall warnings, as you said, it would have been more avoidable if there had been an Angle-Of-Attack indicator in the cockpit.



#42
bAnderson

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I'd also add in the sheer overperformance of the 757, with the handling of the Mercure. Damn things take off like rockets and handle like fighters.

I have heard that 757s don't want to descend before. Seems like it would be fun to fly!

 

I just rode on an Allegiant A320 in April. I didn't notice a problem with them. Plus, Allegiant just ordered some new A320s, not leased ones. You all might have to find another airline to pick on soon.

 

Although I've never ridden on a Jetblue A320, if it is anything like its E-190, the it must be one of the best experiences in the world.

 

In-game, Quantum uses only the 737-800. I think a big part of my decision to do that is the speed, winglet availability, and look. I could run Quantum with A320s too, but as an American LCC that is similar to Southwest and Ryanair more than any other airline, I figured the 738 would be the best option.


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#43
zortan

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I have heard that 757s don't want to descend before. Seems like it would be fun to fly!

 

I just rode on an Allegiant A320 in April. I didn't notice a problem with them. Plus, Allegiant just ordered some new A320s, not leased ones. You all might have to find another airline to pick on soon.

 

Although I've never ridden on a Jetblue A320, if it is anything like its E-190, the it must be one of the best experiences in the world.

 

In-game, Quantum uses only the 737-800. I think a big part of my decision to do that is the speed, winglet availability, and look. I could run Quantum with A320s too, but as an American LCC that is similar to Southwest and Ryanair more than any other airline, I figured the 738 would be the best option.

Thank you! Someone that isn't totally attacking me on this thread :D Well, you may have enjoyed the A320, but many don't on allegiant. They are (in)famous for flying out of Bellingham, WA instead of Seattle because it's cheaper, even though Bellingham is 100 miles away from SEA. They also pretty much exclusively fly leisure destinations, such as Las Vegas, etc. They also have no entertainment, no free service of any kind (pretty much), and they do fly really ancient MD-80s, which have an average of like 25 or so emergency landings a year, maybe it was more, I forgot. They've also been sued a few times for stupid things, like being funded by an illegal online casino and painting it on their planes, etc. 



#44
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#45
Tesla

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True. Firstly, Marb1, please stop it. PM me next time jeez! Next, Boeing factory is way more impressive than airbus, I've seen tons of pictures of airbus, and Boeing was such an awesome place to visit, it's just stunning. Airbus is so small they have to put the A350s in diagonally to make them fit between the walls :P Boeing, they have enough space to fit two 747s side by side in that thing - its insane. Next, airbuses have always been worse flight experiences for me, and I'm very against them, so I'd recommend not arguing with me about it, I get violent, once i had an instagram fight in a comments section max vs neo which lasted for a week, I still won. Next, A318 is TRASH! Way less profits IMO than the 737-600/737-500. Also, Airbus planes do crash more, when you use the ratio of time since A320 introduction to crashes and the same for the 737-800, A320 loses by far, way more crashes, plus, as i said, a less comfy plane, especially in economy. Since I've never flown business or first, can't judge about that, but still. IRL, A320 does cost more than 737, so another reason not to if you're running a somewhat realistic airline.

I would like to disagree on comfort in economy. The inch in seat width makes a huge difference, even for someone with a really skinny frame. Hence why I would rather fly an A320 than a 737. I would prefer almost any widebody to either though. 737s are absolute rockets though, their performance is insane. I've never seen the Boeing factory, but I can tell that it is an impressive thing. I want to visit the place at some point. 

 

However, I have very limited respect for Boeing since they claimed harm from Bombardier selling aircraft which were in a completely different market segment (125 seats, which is much smaller than anything Boeing makes). I hope Bombardier get plenty of money in damages. It was a poor move on the part of Boeing.



#46
zelalemon

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I would like to disagree on comfort in economy. The inch in seat width makes a huge difference, even for someone with a really skinny frame. Hence why I would rather fly an A320 than a 737. I would prefer almost any widebody to either though. 737s are absolute rockets though, their performance is insane. I've never seen the Boeing factory, but I can tell that it is an impressive thing. I want to visit the place at some point. 

 

However, I have very limited respect for Boeing since they claimed harm from Bombardier selling aircraft which were in a completely different market segment (125 seats, which is much smaller than anything Boeing makes). I hope Bombardier get plenty of money in damages. It was a poor move on the part of Boeing.

Weren't Bombardier selling their aircraft at a loss to begin with?


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A319, A320, A321, A333, A346, B734, B738, B752, B762, CRJ2, CRJ7, CRJ9, E145, E170, E190, DH8B

 

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#47
zortan

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I would like to disagree on comfort in economy. The inch in seat width makes a huge difference, even for someone with a really skinny frame. Hence why I would rather fly an A320 than a 737. I would prefer almost any widebody to either though. 737s are absolute rockets though, their performance is insane. I've never seen the Boeing factory, but I can tell that it is an impressive thing. I want to visit the place at some point. 

 

However, I have very limited respect for Boeing since they claimed harm from Bombardier selling aircraft which were in a completely different market segment (125 seats, which is much smaller than anything Boeing makes). I hope Bombardier get plenty of money in damages. It was a poor move on the part of Boeing.

Well - it seems like we disagree on everything! jeez. Other than how amazing the boeing factory is :D 

Bombardier Vs. Boeing - as a Canadian/American, I do side with Boeing. Bombardier is only operating because of huge amounts of gov't $$ being pumped into them and lightspeed. Personally, I just think they're cheating, and a lot of people at my school alone agree with me. Before you say Boeing gets the same, I've never seen anything of the sort in my lifetime, while BBD's $$ has been all over the papers.



#48
PingPong

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Well - it seems like we disagree on everything! jeez. Other than how amazing the boeing factory is :D 
Bombardier Vs. Boeing - as a Canadian/American, I do side with Boeing. Bombardier is only operating because of huge amounts of gov't $$ being pumped into them and lightspeed. Personally, I just think they're cheating, and a lot of people at my school alone agree with me. Before you say Boeing gets the same, I've never seen anything of the sort in my lifetime, while BBD's $$ has been all over the papers.


You sound like you read the daily mail (complete and utter nonsense). Boeing did get subsidies, etc. when it was new to a market. The government subsidised the first mass-transport aircraft from Boeing, the first jets, the first jumbo jet, its military programmes, and its FAILED SST was its most subsidised project of all time. Bombardier is getting subsidies now, but that’s wrong, when you consider what Boeing has had over many years?
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#49
PingPong

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You are a complete and utter fanboy.
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#50
zelalemon

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You are a complete and utter fanboy.

so are you tbf


CLT, BOS, JFK, LGA, EWR, ALB, BDL, SYR, HPN, EWN, RDU, PHL, ATL, CVG, MCO, DCA, IAD, BWI, MDW, HOU, DFW, PHX, DEN, BZN, FAT, SAN, LAX, BUR, SBA, SFO, SEA, ANC, KOA, MTJ, MBJ, SXM, CUN, PVR, YVR, SJO, JNB, LLW, LGW

 

A319, A320, A321, A333, A346, B734, B738, B752, B762, CRJ2, CRJ7, CRJ9, E145, E170, E190, DH8B

 

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#51
zortan

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You sound like you read the daily mail (complete and utter nonsense). Boeing did get subsidies, etc. when it was new to a market. The government subsidised the first mass-transport aircraft from Boeing, the first jets, the first jumbo jet, its military programmes, and its FAILED SST was its most subsidised project of all time. Bombardier is getting subsidies now, but that’s wrong, when you consider what Boeing has had over many years?

Ya i know but that was all over a long time ago.

 

You are a complete and utter fanboy.

 

So what? you're an airbus fanboy.



#52
PingPong

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Ya i know but that was all over a long time ago.


So what? you're an airbus fanboy.


I'm not an airbus fanboy. I like their cockpits, but there's some features on the 777 which I love and my favourite A/C is the Cessna 172 because of the feeling of total freedom it gives me to fly, being so small, light and agile with high wings for great views on sightseeing flights.
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#53
KINGXyro

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Who the hell wants IFE on Airbus A320/Boeing 737's anyways? The real entertainment is at the windows people!  :D



#54
KINGXyro

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Before someone calls me a fanboy.. Yes I admit I'm a fan of Boeing. However, just because I'm a fan I'm going to be biased about it. 

 

I'm aware that Boeing is trying to eliminate threats on their business that's why today they're crushing Bombadier. Few years ago they we're doing the same to Airbus. So on my personal opinion Boeing is just doing this for their own benefit and its crazy that the Department of Commerce sided with Boeing (well obviously Boeing is an american aircraft manufacturer). Airbus even made a video about Boeing's unfair conducts.

 

"The Chicago-based aircraft manufacturer recently launched trade complaints with the Department of Commerce and U.S. International Trade Commission against one of its Canadian competitors, Bombardier, and wants tariffs slapped on it. The "justification" they are using against the company is that Bombardier gets subsidies from the Canadian government that give it an unfair advantage in the U.S. market.

The tone-deaf hypocrisy of this argument is hilarious, as Boeing gets a bunch of subsidies from the federal government and state and local governments.

According to the annual reports put out by the Export-Import Bank, Boeing has benefited from the federal government. Between 1997 and 2013, it was confirmed that roughly 65.4% of the loan guarantees made by Ex-Im benefited Boeing in some way or another.

To break that down, 40.7% of loan guarantees went to organizations to purchase products from Boeing, 4.5% of direct loans went to organizations that also make those purchases, while overall almost $93.5 billion of the Ex-Im Bank's approximate $143 billion in loan guarantees went to foreign organizations that were purchasing from Boeing.

Meanwhile, another report said Boeing received 38% of the Ex-Im Bank's financial assistance in 2011, far more than any other company received. That's why some have given the Ex-Im Bank the nickname "Boeing's bank."

Boeing has also received subsidies and incentives from the states as well. In 2016, the World Trade Organization (WTO) ruled that the state of Washington had given them $5.7 billion in illegal tax breaks. What's more, Boeing has received about $13 billion in subsidies from state and local governments.

The problem Boeing has is less about "unfair competition" and far more to do with their own cronyism. The company has been receiving subsidies and benefits from the government for decades. As a result, their case against Bombardier falls flat since they clearly seem to not have a problem with corporate handouts except for when it goes to their competition.

The fact that it does get a bunch of financial support is not all that surprising when you look at its political donations. In total, Boeing gave out nearly $3.9 million in campaign donations and spent more than $17 million on lobbying efforts in 2016. Even less surprisingly, 66 out of Boeing's 101 lobbyists had previously held jobs with the government. This raises concerns about conflict of interest and favoritism.

There is even more evidence that Boeing is using its donations for political favors. As was reported by Politico, when the Ex-Im Bank was up for reauthorization, it threatened to cut off its support for any politician who voted against it. The company is not shy about flexing its political muscle nor is it afraid to purchase favors on the campaign trail from politicians.

No one loses out from Boeing's shenanigans worse than the American consumer. At the moment, Boeing is also complaining to the federal government about the price at which Bombardier just sold its CSeries planes, which can seat up to 110 passengers, to Delta.

More importantly, Boeing has not made a plane with similar specs in about a decade. Boeing is trying to take all options other than Boeing-supplied airlines away from consumers.

What's more, Bombardier is able to get its aircraft to market for roughly $19 million, which is cheaper than the $33 million that Boeing claims its planes should cost. Lower prices in planes means lower charges for customers and more capital to hire employees. Yet Boeing would instead complain about lower prices and try to raise them to protect its industry. From an economic perspective, this seems like the wrong approach to have.

Trade and competition greatly benefit consumers. They can help drive down costs and force businesses to make improvements to beat their competition. The increased options allow for more variety and give consumers the chance of a better bargain.

However, what Boeing wants would protect their business at the cost of the consumer. Prices would be higher and Boeing will remain uncompetitive. It would not even protect jobs since Boeing has been making layoffs recently and has in the past already threatened to leave the U.S. Overall, the biggest loser in this deal is the American consumer."






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