31 replies to this topic

[airline55]

We all know that Northwest is still in a world of hurt when it comes to money (although made less so by the new union deals today), and one of the major factors is their rather inefficient fleet. On the top of that list is the DC-9, a gass guzzler if there ever was one. Now, NW has been working to renew their fleet, jettisoning less efficient planes such as the MD's and the 727's.

However, the DC-9s (which came from the Republic merger) are paid for, and the largest part of NWA's feet, and it will be expensive to replace 100+ jets, particularly since they are already renewing large parts of their fleet. So, my question is, is it possible or safe to replace the DC-9's with a more efficent engine in order to save money on new aircraft?

[drv4truk]

I'm not sure how cost effective that would be in the long run. There are a few different options for replacement engines, but cost would be an issue. I haven't looked into it, nor am I an expert in the field, but I'm pretty sure it is possible to replace the JT8D-7, JT8D-9, JT8D-11 or the JT8D-15 engines that are common on the DC9-30/40/50 series with the Rolls-Royce BR715-A1 or BR715-C1 that are equipped on the B717's.

[RmTrice]

NWA would be better off slowly replacing the DC-9s. They know that which is why they have announced several times that they are choosing CRJs and EMBs to replace the fleet. I wonder how they plan to get all that money, even though the jets they want aren't that expensive.

[drv4truk]

The CRJ and EMB's would only cover so many routes. A lot of the DC9 routes were already combed back. They gave away as many routes as possible to the CRJ's already to try and increase the number of filled seats per aircraft. Without a replacement aircraft to cover the 115-125 seats per route, you'd end up increasing frequency with a smaller aircraft.

Probably the best replacements for the DC9 would be the E195, A319 or B737-700. I'm not sure about the range on the E195, but the range and capacity of the other two make them good options for replacement. Both of those would be a bit costly though.

[HADC10]

Is the 717 closed yet? Could they take any more last minute orders? NW says the can't use a 73G because its engines are too close to the gate or something to that extent.

[Tump]

No orders can be placed anymore for the 717. That line is closed. The last one is currently in it's finishing process and after that, its bye bye Long Beach plant

[airline55]

The CRJ's?? Last time I looked, the NW only had CRJ 200's, which are much, much smaller than DC's

[RmTrice]

I was referring to NWA's idea to possibly purchace CRJ-900ds. I agree with you, airline55, that those things are much smaller than DC-9s though.

[Tump]

So what if they are smaller? With overcapacity and in urgent need of lower CASM... maybe the CRJ900 is an idea

[HADC10]

CRJ-900 is a one-class aircraft. Not mention far more cramped. The DC-9 is absolutely spacious

[Tump]

If you say so I never flown on one of either two



Oh well, I would still guess more A319s would do the trick for them, but thats just my thought. And I dont really know all the ins- and outs of NW

[airline55]

I dunno about an A319. It seems to me that the 787 buy may be a sign they are moving back towards Boeing.

Now, I know you say that there is over capacity, and I agree, to a degree, but to change from a 100 seat to a 30 seat jet may go to far, many flights out of Detroit (their main hub) are nearly full.

I also thought about the CRJ-900, but it will not work if they want a seat for seat replacement, it only seats about 80 pax. I think that, in the long run, they will go for the E-jets.

[HADC10]

MSP is their main hub for domestic flights, but DTW for international

[airline55]

must be close.

[drv4truk]

I dunno about an A319. It seems to me that the 787 buy may be a sign they are moving back towards Boeing.

Now, I know you say that there is over capacity, and I agree, to a degree, but to change from a 100 seat to a 30 seat jet may go to far, many flights out of Detroit (their main hub) are nearly full.

I also thought about the CRJ-900, but it will not work if they want a seat for seat replacement, it only seats about 80 pax. I think that, in the long run, they will go for the E-jets.

You're right. If they want a seat for seat replacement, then they have no choice but to go with the 737, EMB195 or A319. Otherwise, if they end up using smaller capacity aircraft (CRJ9), they will have to add capacity to cover the demand or risk losing market share to a competitor.

The 787's are slated to replace the 757's. They could probably be used as a replacement for some of the DC9 flights, but that is more seats then most of those routes need.

[FuriousFalcon]

I wonder if AA is going to have financial problems when it comes to replacing their MD-80s? I know they operate 738 (dunno how many) but I think they will just keep their money until the new 737 replacement which will be better in the long run or maybe who know they might go Airbus A32X replacement but unlikely!

[Mecanita]

No orders can be placed anymore for the 717. That line is closed. The last one is currently in it's finishing process and after that, its bye bye Long Beach plant

That's only partly true.
The Globemaster will still be produced at Long Beach.
And maybe the Europeans are going to order some Globemasters.
What I know at the moment is that the Netherlands needs large aircraft after 2008 or 2012.

[WingsOTWorld]

They already are slowly replacing the dc9s as you know...their original plan was to replace with A319s and EMBs/CRJs but then they filed bankruptcy so those plans are on hold.

[HADC10]

Actually, they just placed an order for mainline E-190s and airlink E-170s

[767300ER]

What ever happened to the 717's that American Airlines aquired in their merge with TWA? All those ex. TWA 717's could be nice replacements for NW, that is, unless Air Tran hasn't taken them all...I think it'd be great if NW could retrofit thier DC-9's with the 717's powerplants, I'm not sure of the economics of it all, but, it seems like a logical answer.