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Dealing With Spamlines and How To Increase Realism


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#1
Geminijets 30

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After reading many of the chains on spamlines, I have seen many differing opinions on spam lines and how to stop or compete with spam lines.

Some people compare them to Low Cost Carriers (LCCs), while this may be accurate to some extent, it is not completely accurate. The largest LCC (Southwest Airlines) has a fleet of 715 Boeing 737 variants with 249 on order. The largest spamlines have over 10000 aircraft, and almost every major type of aircraft too. There is no saying that competing with a spamline is like competing with a LCC.

Some say spamlines are a product of capitalism, they are not. They are a product of basic AI passengers who have no or very little regard to the airlines service and only care about the ticket pricing. They are also the product of the ways hubs can influence passengers amounts. No airline in the real world would be able to operate fully booked flights between two regional airports with widebody aircraft, or honestly anything larger than a regional jet. The fact that hubs essentially create more passengers gives spamlines a way to operate and be spamlines. 

Spamlines are also easier to make because of the unrealistic amount of aircraft leasing, most airlines own some or most of their fleet, because leasing is uneconomical, but this is not the case in AE, lease prices would need to be raised in order to stop spamlines.

Many players are annoyed by spamlines and this issue needs to be fixed in order to create a realistic and competitive atmosphere in the games. Actually scheduling flights would be one way to deal with this issue, passengers would be more likely to take flights with shorter connection times and airlines could better utilize their aircraft, this would also repurpose hub usage. Passengers also need to be more influenced by service than price, this would include actually managing legroom, as the current way of configuring aircraft does not tell you how much legroom passengers have. Inflight service needs to be more valuable to passengers, one way to fix this is provide a more comprehensive breakdown of travelers, telling airlines what types of passengers are in the demand for a certain route, an example would be business travelers want their flights to match with their schedule which goes back to a previous point, people on vacation will want more service on their flight and may be willing to pay a bit extra, while some people who just need to get somewhere may choose the best price to a reasonable extent. Another thing to add would be more realistic delays, which could influence passengers, an example in the US is Spirit Airlines who is late and delayed quite often, compared to Southwest or Delta, who are on time a majority of the time.

One thing to think about is that if you saw an airline in the real world that sold tickets for $1, you would either know that its too good to be true, or that something is very wrong with that airline, such as their safety might be way below par, or they might not take you where they say. You would know something sketchy is going on, and you probably wouldn't fly with them.

Spamlines are not the product of anything but a game that needs major adjustments in order to create a feeling of realism.

 

(No one should complain about spamlines in sandbox worlds because that is literally what those worlds are made for) 


 

 

 

 


#2
Geminijets 30

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This list by zortan proposes a lot of good ideas

 

 

I've made a list of things that would improve the game, in my opinion, and start to get rid of Spamlines:

  1. Scheduling - When you create a route - you have to set times and aircraft, as well as days of the week. That way - putting a route on a plane takes longer and would slow down expansion. Flights that are departed at ridiculous times (such as midnight-6Am) will get less passengers because of their frustrating departure times.
  2. Maintenance - Similar to scheduling - you need to plan your A, B, C, and D checks for your plane instead of just getting the bill. You must then schedule them for times that the plane isn't on a route, of course.
  3. Hubs - Airlines should only be able to create routes from their HQ airport at the start of their existence. After they've existed for some time (90-270 days or something), they will be able to open a new hub. Then, they can depart flights from both of their hubs. Then, they have to wait another 90 days (These are all game days, btw) to open the third hub, and so on. This would limit expansion and prohibit empty hubs as some spamlines do (hubbing every single city that is a destination!)
  4. Used Aircraft Delivery - When an airline sells an A/C, it has to be delivered from the location of the airline, which would take time. Therefore, all Used aircraft purchases should have a delivery time of 24 hours for removal of the old airline's branding, then the flight time from the other airline's hub to your chosen delivery location. That way, Spamlines can't just buy the entire used market and create an instant 1000 plane fleet. Another suggestion in the used aircraft is that you should only be allowed to buy 2 or so used aircraft every game day - this also limits expansion.
  5. Finances - bonds should become loans - then you can pay them off ahead of time. Also, starting cash should be about 30 million for airlines in R worlds and 175 million for airlines in the sandboxes. That way - with my used aircraft suggestions and the like, you don't run out of money waiting for aircraft to be delivered
  6. Chronological considerations - Templehoff airport and many other airports in AE close at some point. Therefore - they should. For the example of THF, it should open in 1923 and close in 2008 in the game worlds. Then there is demand. Demand at THF was up until the late 70's when it began to dwindle. Rather than just have random demand changes, demand should change as time goes on in the realistic airports. This should also change based on time around the world - Air Travel was less popular, believe it or not, in the 60's than it is today, so there should be less demand all around then.
  7. New aircraft production - Aircraft should use production slots. This is when a delivery for each aircraft can be made once a day, once a week, etc. The manufacturer would give delivery slots to carriers, and so when a carrier orders a lot, say 50 737-700s, they get maybe every 3 production slots for their planes. Then, if someone else came along and ordered just 5, they would get a few in the middle of the other airline's slots. That way, spamlines don't kill production for others, and they allow for consistent and planned aircraft deliveries.
  8. Weight Variants - some aircraft offer additional MTOW packages for an added cost that increase the range without putting in different engines - these would work well as another option
  9. IFS Additions: Baggage fees, carry-on fees, boarding pass printing fees (Spirit does this!), iPads, premium Economy
  10. Essential Air Service and the like. In the USA, the government pays some airlines such as Mokulele and Boutique Air to operate routes that would be unprofitable otherwise, such as to remote airports in alaska, as well as remote airports in the plains of the US. Other countries have similar systems - I think this would be good for airlines looking to expand their networks. Cities with no demand (Teterboro, etc.) can have an EAS implemented where the airline will be paid to construct a terminal and start at least x number of flights to the airport.

In the end - these are just my suggestions that might not get implemented, but I think that they would help the game tremendously in becoming more playable and more fun!


 

 

 

 


#3
namika

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This seems a lot of things to add so you might as well delay ae4.0 another 25 years


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#4
namika

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This also doesn't seem like the right category to post this


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#5
Melodique

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Geminijets I love your effort :D I would love to change AE aswell. BUT it would be a hard thing to do. We do not have the resources at the moment to do this. We would have to increase our resources first before doing anything and that is not going to happen unless we get more volunteer developers or we get paid developers at which point AE wouldn't be free anymore. You could make a very big discussion out of this. I have many ideas aswell what AE could be but unless somebody starts and does sth we won't get anywhere.

 

We as community should start to agree on how we should start doing sth and I can say you this is going to be a hell of a task because the AE community is not a very peaceful place .....



#6
zortan

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I think volunteer devs is a great idea and i asked yuxi etc if i could do that and they ignored me!!

#7
PingPong

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This list by zortan proposes a lot of good ideas
 
 
I've made a list of things that would improve the game, in my opinion, and start to get rid of Spamlines:

  • Scheduling - When you create a route - you have to set times and aircraft, as well as days of the week. That way - putting a route on a plane takes longer and would slow down expansion. Flights that are departed at ridiculous times (such as midnight-6Am) will get less passengers because of their frustrating departure times.
  • Maintenance - Similar to scheduling - you need to plan your A, B, C, and D checks for your plane instead of just getting the bill. You must then schedule them for times that the plane isn't on a route, of course.
  • Hubs - Airlines should only be able to create routes from their HQ airport at the start of their existence. After they've existed for some time (90-270 days or something), they will be able to open a new hub. Then, they can depart flights from both of their hubs. Then, they have to wait another 90 days (These are all game days, btw) to open the third hub, and so on. This would limit expansion and prohibit empty hubs as some spamlines do (hubbing every single city that is a destination!)
  • Used Aircraft Delivery - When an airline sells an A/C, it has to be delivered from the location of the airline, which would take time. Therefore, all Used aircraft purchases should have a delivery time of 24 hours for removal of the old airline's branding, then the flight time from the other airline's hub to your chosen delivery location. That way, Spamlines can't just buy the entire used market and create an instant 1000 plane fleet. Another suggestion in the used aircraft is that you should only be allowed to buy 2 or so used aircraft every game day - this also limits expansion.
  • Finances - bonds should become loans - then you can pay them off ahead of time. Also, starting cash should be about 30 million for airlines in R worlds and 175 million for airlines in the sandboxes. That way - with my used aircraft suggestions and the like, you don't run out of money waiting for aircraft to be delivered
  • Chronological considerations - Templehoff airport and many other airports in AE close at some point. Therefore - they should. For the example of THF, it should open in 1923 and close in 2008 in the game worlds. Then there is demand. Demand at THF was up until the late 70's when it began to dwindle. Rather than just have random demand changes, demand should change as time goes on in the realistic airports. This should also change based on time around the world - Air Travel was less popular, believe it or not, in the 60's than it is today, so there should be less demand all around then.
  • New aircraft production - Aircraft should use production slots. This is when a delivery for each aircraft can be made once a day, once a week, etc. The manufacturer would give delivery slots to carriers, and so when a carrier orders a lot, say 50 737-700s, they get maybe every 3 production slots for their planes. Then, if someone else came along and ordered just 5, they would get a few in the middle of the other airline's slots. That way, spamlines don't kill production for others, and they allow for consistent and planned aircraft deliveries.
  • Weight Variants - some aircraft offer additional MTOW packages for an added cost that increase the range without putting in different engines - these would work well as another option
  • IFS Additions: Baggage fees, carry-on fees, boarding pass printing fees (Spirit does this!), iPads, premium Economy
  • Essential Air Service and the like. In the USA, the government pays some airlines such as Mokulele and Boutique Air to operate routes that would be unprofitable otherwise, such as to remote airports in alaska, as well as remote airports in the plains of the US. Other countries have similar systems - I think this would be good for airlines looking to expand their networks. Cities with no demand (Teterboro, etc.) can have an EAS implemented where the airline will be paid to construct a terminal and start at least x number of flights to the airport.
In the end - these are just my suggestions that might not get implemented, but I think that they would help the game tremendously in becoming more playable and more fun!

Remember, AE is developed by one man in his spare time, helped by a handful of moderators and staff members. He is developing many of this for AE 4, but its such a big project that it will take many years. AE 1, 2, and 3 were many years apart. It was even a couple of years before we got AE 3.1 after AE 3. AE 4 is a much bigger project, as it isn't just adding elements to the old game and changing the dates to show realistic dya, month, and year information. This would require the rewriting of many core game elementa for compatibility with more in-depth features, as well as the development of said features. The whole game would have to be reprogrammed in a more advanced programming language to streamline future improvements. I wouldn't be surprised if AE 4 was a desktop client-server game, rather than web-based like AE 1, 2 and 3(.1).
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#8
PingPong

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Remember, AE is developed by one man in his spare time, helped by a handful of moderators and staff members. He is developing many of this for AE 4, but its such a big project that it will take many years. AE 1, 2, and 3 were many years apart. It was even a couple of years before we got AE 3.1 after AE 3. AE 4 is a much bigger project, as it isn't just adding elements to the old game and changing the dates to show realistic dya, month, and year information. This would require the rewriting of many core game elementa for compatibility with more in-depth features, as well as the development of said features. The whole game would have to be reprogrammed in a more advanced programming language to streamline future improvements. I wouldn't be surprised if AE 4 was a desktop client-server game, rather than web-based like AE 1, 2 and 3(.1).


Also, this is the wrong subforum. You're not asking for a new game world, you're asking for a brand new game, or at least a significant development on the current one. You should probably post directly in the Suggestions and Feature Requests subforum.
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#9
Tesla

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Also, this is the wrong subforum. You're not asking for a new game world, you're asking for a brand new game, or at least a significant development on the current one. You should probably post directly in the Suggestions and Feature Requests subforum.

Wrong comment reply :P 

 

Anyway. Yeah. Spamlines are just a product of competition in AE. We just have to go with it :/ 



#10
Leebro

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So basically, make AE have a bit of Air Tycoon Online (2) in it?


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