42 replies to this topic

[TNT88]

But in some respects, the 767 is too big and too expensive for certain routes.

Not the -200ER. That plane is the pinnacle of MoM. That plane carry around 190 passengers on 2 class with the latest configurations. 

[Tesla]

Yh. I'm begging for an aircraft like this one right now. There is nothing good enough to replace the 757. Not without significant cuts to route frequencies. Which cannot be done because there are many routes I operate with only just enough demand for a single weekly service  

[Avelo]

Yh. I'm begging for an aircraft like this one right now. There is nothing good enough to replace the 757. Not without significant cuts to route frequencies. Which cannot be done because there are many routes I operate with only just enough demand for a single weekly service

Hence why I doubt AA, Delta, and United would retire their 757 fleet anytime soon. Even I would find it hard to retire this plane in AE...

[bAnderson]

To be fair, I'm still wondering now why they decided to work on B757-200 replacement instead of B767-200/-300 replacements. For sure the criteria fits better for B767 instead of B757. Also, kind of surprise that they focus the range on short range instead of regional and medium haul flights. 4000nm - 5000nm is nothing. Should ramped up the range to 5500nm for the smaller version and 6000nm for the larger one. You know, since B767-300ER is the most popular of them all, and how airlines still being forced to used it until now.

Well the 787 only has like 10 seats more than the 767-300. The 787 is basically the answer to your question, but there is a gap in the industry right now for anything larger than the 737-900/A321 and smaller than the 787. That's, what, 220-360 seats? It can only really be filled by 757s and 767s. Either Boeing needs to figure that out with the 797 (or something new..) or make a suitable next-gen of the 757/767 families. Before Airbus or even Bombardier figures that out.

[TNT88]

Well the 787 only has like 10 seats more than the 767-300. The 787 is basically the answer to your question, but there is a gap in the industry right now for anything larger than the 737-900/A321 and smaller than the 787. That's, what, 220-360 seats? It can only really be filled by 757s and 767s. Either Boeing needs to figure that out with the 797 (or something new..) or make a suitable next-gen of the 757/767 families. Before Airbus or even Bombardier figures that out.

Well not quite right. There is around 23 seats different. With the same configurations of thompson vantage business class seat and 32" seat pitch on economy class, B787 would be able to hold 25C 237Y while B767-300ER would be able to hold 23C 216Y.

 

The main problem is definitely the thrust and the range of B787-8. Lots of B767-300ER routes are either regional or medium-haul. Combined with the take off distance of the B767-300ER and the Non-hi trust B787-8 engines. B767-300ER able to access smaller airport.

[bAnderson]

23 seats is a lot different than the gap before, from the 400-something A332. The 787 is the logical replacement for the 767 but the 757 remains unreplacable. Luckily the 757's safety record is outstanding, allowing it to continue to serve into old age. However, I don't think that it will be able to last much longer than it has, even with upgrades like scimitar winglets. The 757 urgently needs a replacement.

[DeltaIVSSBN]

Boeing should have just made a 757 neo or 757 max.

[TNT88]

23 seats is a lot different than the gap before, from the 400-something A332. The 787 is the logical replacement for the 767 but the 757 remains unreplacable. Luckily the 757's safety record is outstanding, allowing it to continue to serve into old age. However, I don't think that it will be able to last much longer than it has, even with upgrades like scimitar winglets. The 757 urgently needs a replacement.

A330-200 and B787-8 actually have an extremely similar capacity. A330-200 able to carry 25 Business class seat (Thompson Vantage) and 242 economy class seat, while B787-8 able to carry 25 Business Class seat and 238 economy class seat. Same pitch for the economy class at 32".

B787-8 is not the right replacement for B767-300ER. Because of the 23 seat difference and the 1350nm range difference between them.

 

 

Also, the main reason Boeing hasn't made B757MAX is because the only model that actually sell well is B757-200. B757-300 failed dramatically. Airlines don't want to buy a model aircraft that only consist of 1 model. Unless they operate more than 30 of those single aircraft, the amount of money that they need to scoop for maintenance cost, pilot training and other requirements would be too large.

Instead most airlines would just order A321-200. It have the same commonality with A319 and A320 which is widely used by many airlines, so they don't need to scoop that much money for maintenance and pilot training for A321-200.

Also, B757-200MAX wouldn't have the same fuel advantages compared to A321NEO or B737MAX10.

B767-200 capacity is the only answer for B757-200 replacement. B757-200 have maximum capacity of 252 economy class seat, while B767-200 have maximum capacity of 272 economy class seat. Both are using 28" seat pitch.

 

For 230 economy class seating, Boeing offer B737MAX10.

[bAnderson]

Actually the 767-200 has a maximum of 290 seats while the 757-200 has a maximum of 239. The A321-200 has a maximum of 230 seats. If Boeing were to produce a new variant to supplement the 757 they should also take into consideration replacing the 767-200 with it. Maybe a shorter widebody with more efficient engines? Even if it was split between a 240-250 seat max and a 260-300 seat maximum, they would be able to replace two aging but strong fleets with one type.

[TNT88]

Yeah, you need to have 8 abreast B767-200 to achieve those seat count at 290. B757-200 surprisingly able to hold 252 economy class seat even though it's only certified to carry 239 passengers max.

 

But for now, I think Boeing would focus more on B767-200 capacity and B767-300ER capacity instead of B757-200. For longer range at 5000nm, I think they need more passengers than 239 on B757-200.

They would probably goes with 20C 170Y for the smaller one and 28C 200Y for the larger one.

 

Feels like Boeing already acknowledged their defeat in the B757-200 market segments to A321NEO. Also, I've heard about a possible stretch by Airbus for the A322NEO with longer range, probably 4500nm-5000nm.

This would be problematic for Boeing. 

[Avelo]

Yeah, you need to have 8 abreast B767-200 to achieve those seat count at 290. B757-200 surprisingly able to hold 252 economy class seat even though it's only certified to carry 239 passengers max.

But for now, I think Boeing would focus more on B767-200 capacity and B767-300ER capacity instead of B757-200. For longer range at 5000nm, I think they need more passengers than 239 on B757-200.
They would probably goes with 20C 170Y for the smaller one and 28C 200Y for the larger one.

Feels like Boeing already acknowledged their defeat in the B757-200 market segments to A321NEO. Also, I've heard about a possible stretch by Airbus for the A322NEO with longer range, probably 4500nm-5000nm.
This would be problematic for Boeing.

Again, we really need the 797...

[bAnderson]

I think the 797 is going to be a different type of aircraft. Something we haven't seen before.

[TNT88]

Would airbus stretch A321neo though? it would kill the smaller B797.

[zortan]

I think the 797 is going to be a different type of aircraft. Something we haven't seen before.

I would think so - a 757 replacement as a widebody sort of happened with the 787-3, that just failed - so probably something new.

[LJ Aviation]

I think currently no plane besides the 757 can actually hold the MoM section. That is why they are still in service. 737 MAX 10 does not have the range to transatlantic. A321NEO does not have the range to transatlantic. The only plane I see that could replace it is A321LR, but no one knows if Airbus is actually going to make it. So Boeing have to make a 757 replacement, and I think the best bet for Boeing is to shrink the 787 or somehow add range to 737 MAX 10.

[KINGXyro]

There's no replacement yet at least that we know of. But the nearest I can think of is the Airbus A321 LR.. or the bigger Boeing 787-8 however in-game the Boeing 757 offers the advantage of having more passengers than the A321 while being able to access the smaller airports the Boeing 787-8 can't (runway length issues)

[zortan]

There's no replacement yet at least that we know of. But the nearest I can think of is the Airbus A321 LR.. or the bigger Boeing 787-8 however in-game the Boeing 757 offers the advantage of having more passengers than the A321 while being able to access the smaller airports the Boeing 787-8 can't (runway length issues)

Yeah well - I can suffer through 757 issues personally - I'm never going to fly that airbus. In terms of IRL, sure the 321LR would work, however, it still just isn't the same. The 787 is a great replacement for long-runway routes, which a lot of them are anyhow, and the 737 MAX 9 and MAX 10 will suffice for shorter distance routes.

[Tesla]

Yeah well - I can suffer through 757 issues personally - I'm never going to fly that airbus. In terms of IRL, sure the 321LR would work, however, it still just isn't the same. The 787 is a great replacement for long-runway routes, which a lot of them are anyhow, and the 737 MAX 9 and MAX 10 will suffice for shorter distance routes.

I reckon you'll be running the Boeing Only Aircraft Corporation soon  

[zortan]

I reckon you'll be running the Boeing Only Aircraft Corporation soon

Yup. I now hate the CSeries too now that airbus has bought more than half of the bloody program

[Tesla]

Yup. I now hate the CSeries too now that airbus has bought more than half of the bloody program

Only 50.01%. It does annoy me that bombardier has now got a minority share in it's own product