16 replies to this topic

[SWMcCaig]

So, what exactly determines that you are using a "realistic" seat configuration? Take a simple aircraft like the 737-800. There are so many airlines that use this aircraft, and almost every one uses a different configuration. So, when you are trying to create your config for ANY aircraft in the game, what "qualifies" it as realistic? I was using a formula I found on the forums that creates "up to" a 3 class config for ANY aircraft in the game, and uses approximately 80-85% of max capacity. Would this qualify or not? All this talk about maintaining "realism" makes this game more work than fun unless there are simple guidelines to follow.......

 

I was going to use Oggey's guide, but found that even it shows up to 10 different configs for the same aircraft. AND, it doesn't include all aircraft in the game, just the most popular ones.

[eastwind]

Who cares what other people say.

[gavonious.malaysia]

The realism of seating arrangements in this game really comes down to how much work you want to put into it. I have split up my ideas and "research" into three points about what to do/take into account when trying to make a realistic seating arrangement. The first point covers the easiest way to create a "realistic" seating arrangement that fits the average route demand. The second and third points cover the analysis of what real airlines do when it comes to configurations.

 

1.) I studied the demand on a bunch of routes and determined that a demand-fitting configuration should be ~2% First, ~12% Business and ~86% Economy. The only problem is that each class has a different size of seat (In multiplicity of size of economy class seat: F=~2.5x C=~1.7x) and therefore requires a different balance in order to achieve the "perfect" seating arrangement. When it comes to having a realistic number of seats in any given aircraft, you simply reduce the seats of each class to 70-85% of the original config created from the 2%/12%/86%. Using the example aircraft, the B737-800, a high density demand-fitting arrangement would be 3F/21C/147Y and a lower density/more realistic seating arrangement would be 2F/17C/119Y (81%). Applied to wide-body aircraft the idea stays the same with one option: to become more competitive with other airlines using high-density arrangements on long range routes you can optionally reduce the seating by 5-10% more in order to allow higher weekly frequencies. Ex. High density for A330-300 is 8F/48C/343Y and low density is 6F/36C/259Y (75%)

 

2.) I recently studied the arrangements of various carriers operating the B777-300ER such as Asiana, Singapore, Garuda, EVA, etc. and came to the same conclusion that you did, everyone has a very different arrangement. Most airlines I researched also had several very different arrangements for the same aircraft (ANA has 4). I believe that any arrangement that is between 50% and 75% of maximum capacity is realistic as that tends to be the range that most airlines have.

 

3.) I personally include first class on almost all of my aircraft that will be operating on routes with first class demand. I have seen that most players in this game don't have first class on all of their arrangements but those of their largest and longest range aircraft. Most major airlines seem to have a similar approach to what most players of this game have when it comes to this. I am pointing out that another aspect of "realism" that should be taken into account when wanting to create the perfect "most realistic" seating arrangement is the inclusion of first and business class based on the overall size of the aircraft or intention of use in service.

 

I am planning to create a spreadsheet of various different configurations for the mainline aircraft of the game if you are interested, or anyone, for that matter.

[SWMcCaig]

Definately interested. Thanks for responding.

[Will101]

http://www.seatguru.com/

[berubium]

I'm not aware of any narrowbody aircraft with 3 class configurations (unless you count "premium economy" as a separate class), so one could consider a 737-800 with three classes pretty unrealistic.  That being said, you could conceivably have 3 classes in that aircraft, so my suggestion is to do what you feel like & not worry about everyone else.  That is coming from someone who plays somewhat realistically (i.e. 16C, 132Y on a 737-800).

[Lenins Ghost]

I'm not aware of any narrowbody aircraft with 3 class configurations (unless you count "premium economy" as a separate class), so one could consider a 737-800 with three classes pretty unrealistic.  That being said, you could conceivably have 3 classes in that aircraft, so my suggestion is to do what you feel like & not worry about everyone else.  That is coming from someone who plays somewhat realistically (i.e. 16C, 132Y on a 737-800).

AA has a proper 3 class config (technically 4) on there trans-con A321 

 

http://www.seatguru....us_A321_new.php

[berubium]

AA has a proper 3 class config (technically 4) on there trans-con A321 

 

http://www.seatguru....us_A321_new.php

 

Wow.  Impressive!  And thanks for showing a prototypical example.

 

I flew with AA in an A321 from PHX to MIA back in February.  I wish it would have been this config.  Would have likely made for a much quieter flight seeing as how small the economy cabin is.

[Talamare]

AA has a proper 3 class config (technically 4) on there trans-con A321 

 

http://www.seatguru....us_A321_new.php

 

This is a perfect example tho of why realistic seats just makes things more annoying to play

 

This is a 10/20/72 seating configuration, and I'm sure they get plenty of usage of every seat.

In game however, on average you will have ~6x more demand for Business class than for 1st class

and about ~35x more demand for Economy class than for 1st class

 

To have those lovely 10 Beds in 1st class, to get a decent balance for this game you would need 60 Business and 350 Economy!

 

I suppose, you could just then have those 10/20/72 planes then also make some 40/280 planes.

but that kinda sounds a little annoying...

[Stevphfeniey]

I just go onto Wikipedia and steal configs from there.

 

Is it optimal? No. Do my airlines still make enough money to continue their existence? Yes. 

[Pilot8]

I use seatguru.com

[SWMcCaig]

What's so wrong about using an all economy class seating config. One of the most successful airlines of all time, WN, uses this every day......In game though, it's looked upon as spamming???

[Will101]

Nothing is wrong with using all economy. The issue, moreso for realists, is using 100% Y on certain aircraft which would need aircraft to be fitted with slimline seats, 28 inch pitch and have galleys/toilets removed.

But by all means using all Y configurations is nothing bad at all and in most situation is more realistic than forcing F/C onto aircraft. 

[SWMcCaig]

Ah, I get it. What you're saying is that all Y is okay if you use something realistic like 70-75% max capacity?

[Talamare]

Nothing is wrong with using all economy. The issue, moreso for realists, is using 100% Y on certain aircraft which would need aircraft to be fitted with slimline seats, 28 inch pitch and have galleys/toilets removed.

But by all means using all Y configurations is nothing bad at all and in most situation is more realistic than forcing F/C onto aircraft. 

 

So what you're saying is ... We need a new IFE called Toilets that reduce some seats and IFS should also reduce some seats.

 

From both a gameplay and realism perspective that seems logical. It's just hard for Gamers to willing lose seats for no reason. (I mean yea... Legroom bar, but they made that not have enough impact...)

 

Note, I'm going to stop calling the people who maximize everything in order to get highest valuation "Spammers" and start calling them Gamers. While obviously the other camp are Realists.

[July]

I would say that seats configuraton depends on demand of the route where my plane is flying. If there is high busines demand I will extend busines class on specific airplane.

 

 

[berubium]

This is a perfect example tho of why realistic seats just makes things more annoying to play

 

This is a 10/20/72 seating configuration, and I'm sure they get plenty of usage of every seat.

In game however, on average you will have ~6x more demand for Business class than for 1st class

and about ~35x more demand for Economy class than for 1st class

 

To have those lovely 10 Beds in 1st class, to get a decent balance for this game you would need 60 Business and 350 Economy!

 

I suppose, you could just then have those 10/20/72 planes then also make some 40/280 planes.

but that kinda sounds a little annoying...

But if a competitor already has a stronghold on the route & is using some sort of 8C 160Y config or something like that (which I actually see a lot of here in AE), that 10/20/72 config you mention could actually round out the demand quite well & make it a bit easier to compete.

 

As for the RL AA, they likely use other configs on the same routes, but run planes with that generous config on red-eyes & daytime routes with heavier F & C demand.  Pretty interesting stuff if you ask me.