29 replies to this topic

[dwight looi]

This is my review of the game

 

Pluses

• Nearly every aircraft under the sun is represented
• Nearly every airport is represented
• Technical specifications are reasonably accurate
• Web Browser based interface means that game is not computing platform specific
• Easy to learn and start playing

Minuses

• Game mechanics are both unrealistic and not particularly entertaining
• There is basically ONE style of play if you want to be the #1 airline
• Completely devoid of music and animation

OK, that's the summary. Here's the detailed review...

 

First of all if you are interested in seeing your favourite aircraft model and it's specific subtype in the game you will not be disappointed. If you are interested in hanging specific engines on your planes you won't be disappoined either. The game runs in any web browser, so you'll be able to play on your PC, Mac, iPad or even mobile phone. That's the good part... but this doesn't offset all the fatal flaws of the game.

 

What's wrong with this game is that it is NOT particularly fun unless your idea of fun is data entry and waking up in the middle or the night or wasting time at work doing... well... more data entry. The cause of this is three primary -- and fatal -- flaws...

 

(1) The Game rewards Repetition.  The game is extremely repetitive in this sense. log in one delivery day, start new route, type in ticket prices, keep chanign it until you get the highest price that still gets you full occupancy. As the game wears on, to end up doing dataentry for a lot of routes using a lot of planes... now REPEAT that 1000 times.

 

(2) The Game rewards ONE single minded startegy. You have to fill up your aircraft order book with as many types of aircrafts as you can afford. This is because the game will deliver an aircraft from any one family every 2~4 weeks. If you only buy one family of aircraft you can never grow at a rate faster than 1 aircraft per 2~4 weeks of game days. By the 3rd or 4th month you'll have money sitting around that will allow you to buy order 10 aircrafts a month. But you'll still won't be able to grow faster than adding one or 2 aircrafts a month unless you buy as many different families from as many manufacturers as possible. If you buy everything airbus, everything boeing has, everything bombardier has, everything everyone has you'll be able to add 20~30 aircrafts a month. This way you'll out pace the growth rate of your competition and win.

 

(3) The Game rewards life interrupting diligence (for most people whop have a life). One game day passes for every 15~20 mins of real time. To maximize your growth you will take delivery of new aircraft and start new routes every week or two of game days. This means you MUST log in every 2~5 hours and... well... do data entry if you don't want planes sitting around costing money while your grow stalls in comparison to your opponents. To play your airline optimally you have to log in the wake up 2~3 times a night and probably get fired from your job by playing 3~5 times during the work day.

 

Anyone with half a brain will realize what the entire game is about after playing it for a day or two. After that it becomes a competition to see who has the will power to do the same repetitive thing and mess up your life for up to 202 days or until every other leader in the gae gives up and walk away. Somehow, I don't find that very fun.

 

Enough of the criticism... this is how I'll design the game to inject some fun into it and recover some sanity for its participants.

 

(1) Have a playing schedule which makes sense. Instead of breaking the game turn down to 1 day every 15 or 20 mins of realtime, a much coarser time resolution will improve the game dramatically. First of all, nobody should have to wake up 5 times a night or risk getting fired at work to properly play the game. This means that each game turn should be 12~24 hours of real time. Given that humans sleep about 8 hours and work about 8 hours. The game should only require "attention" no more frequently than twice a day. Secondly, games should not last half a year in real time. At most it should last a month and change. This means that each game turn should be one game year instead of a game day. Hence, a 40 year campaign will go by in 20~40 days. Most people will find that a lot more palatable. Than a game lasting many months.

 

(2) There should be different ways to win. A special bonus system can be created to reward specific styles of play. The system is balanced such that you can succeed going by adopting different approaches such as beign a low cost carrier, being a national carrier, flying one type of aircraft or fly many types... all with specific advantageous and compromises. For example:-

 

• One Aircraft Type -- Airline flies only one family of aircraft -- -30% Maintenance
• Two Airrcraft Types -- Airline flies only two families of aircraft -- -20% Maintenance
• Few Aircraft Types -- Airline flies up to three families of aircraft -- -10% Maintenance
• Multi-Source -- Airline has at least 30 planes each from two or more manufacturers -- -10% acquisition cost
• Launch Customer -- Airline places order for aircraft before 1st delivery -- -25% discount on that order; specifications sometimes reduced (random)
• Advanced IFE -- Airline has the latest IFE systems installed on 75% of fleet -- + 10% passengers
• Point-to-point carrier -- Airline operates at least 50 routes with NO hubs -- +25% passengers
• Hub-n-Spoke carrier -- Airline opeartes at least 50 routes with EVERY route connected to a hub -- +25% connecting passengers
• Budget Carrier -- Airline only offers economy class seats -- -5% aircraft acuisition cost, -10% cabin crew, -20% inflight service cost
• Luxury Carrier -- Airline offers only Business and/or First Class seats -- +25% first/business class passengers
• Safe Carrier -- Airline is at least 5 years old and with no accidents for the last 10 years -- +10% passengers
• International Carrier -- Airline flies to at least 10 countries -- +10% passengers
• Large Network -- Airline has more than 100 destinations -- +25% transfer passengers
• Best Service -- Airline has #1 service quality rating in game -- +5% economy, +10% business, +15% first class passengers
• Most Punctual -- Airline has #1 on time performance -- +10% passengers
• State Sponsored -- Airline starts as national carrier -- +25% labor costs, Up to 10 gates free in country, reduced loan interests
• Long Haul Carrier -- 5 or more routes > 7000 nm -- +5% passengers
• Etc. etc. etc...

(3) There should be events to break the monotony, cause crisis and shower unexpected windfalls. Accidents, political events, wars, olympics, tourism booms, bad weather, etc.

 

(4) There should be fewer airports and # depends on maximum airlines allowed in game. Forces players to compete and comete early.

 

(5) AI takeovers.  At the beginning of the game there are always the maximum # of airlines. A 100 airline game starts with 100 airlines. If there are only 77 players there are 23 AI airlines. Airlines don't disappear if a player quits. The AI takes over and the airline stays in the game. Once the game starts, late joining players CANNOT start a new airline. They CAN however take over an AI airline which might have been started as an AI airline or was a player airline which was abandoned. Players can rename the airline they take over when joining. Players who abandon an airline cannot re-enter that particular game -- you qui,t you are out.

 

(6) Specializations. When starting the game, a player can select up to two specialities. Players can double specialize for double the bonuses.

• Great Promoter -- +25% Advertising
• Expansionist -- -25% new routes costs
• Financial Expert -- -25% loan / bond interest
• Technologist -- -25% IFE costs, IFE systems available 1 year earlier than standard
• Safety Expert -- -25% accident rate, accident severity reduced, +10% maintenance crew rating
• Logistics Expert -- -25% Maintenance costs
• Aviation Enthuiast -- +25% Launch Customer Discount, Launch specifications reductions less likely and less severe
• Motivational Speaker -- +10% on all personel ratings, personel ratings grow at 10% greater rate, strikes less likely
• Sales Guy -- +50% in duty free flight sales, +25% paid IFE sales
• etc... etc... etc...

Ideas Supplemental (added 1/14/15)

 

(7) Realistic Delivery Schedules. The following aircraft delivery model is both more realistic and does not steer everyone towards the need to buy plane family from everyone if they want to expand. It will also make "popular" aircrafts harder to get and less popular ones easier to acquire -- which is how it is in the real world.

• Every Aircraft Family has a production rate. In a 1 year / turn game it's annual production, if the game is based on quarterly turns it's quarterly production rate. For example, the Boeing 787 may have a 168 unit/turn production rate (in an annual turn game).
• Aircraft Production are available in first come first serve basis for delivery in the following turn. However, no leaser may "hog" more than 10% of the entire production and no purchaser may "hog" more than 50%.
• Every Aircraft Family also has an inventory. Any produced aircraft not spoken for by any airline goes into inventory.
• Aircrafts in Inventory are available for immediate delivery. There is no percentage limitations.
• The moment inventory is not 0, the manufacturer will cut production rates by the inventory count at the start of the next turn.
• The moment inventory is 0, the manufacturer will increase production rates by 0~20% (Random)
• When acquiring aircraft, the player sees the max number available to him now (inventory planes), the number available in subsequent turns (production planes) and the scheduled production during the next 5 turns.
• Eg. Inventory (15) -- 2000 (78/120) -- 2001 (31/120) -- 2002 (7/120) -- 2003 (0/120) -- 2004 (0/120)
• He can buy or lease as many inventory planes has he has money to buy or lease and receive them now.
• He can lease as up to 10% of the unbooked schduled production for delivery during subsequent turns.
• He can buy up to 50% of the production per turn if he can afford it.

[Falcon444]

I like the idea, but no, i actually like the game how it is

[Northern]

This idea is one of many standpoints, most people don't play AE to win it, more so just to create nice airlines flying cute routes. I don't like the idea of shorter game worlds as it's more effort for less gain, the proposals are interesting though.

[Hake.]

This idea is one of many standpoints, most people don't play AE to win it, more so just to create nice airlines flying cute routes. I don't like the idea of shorter game worlds as it's more effort for less gain, the proposals are interesting though.

Firstly, welcome back Northern.
Secondly, I completely agree with what North is saying. While I'm your eyes it would appear this all about about that profit, very few of us have wanted to get the top spot. In the 3 years I've been here I haven't woken up to route, either manipulate delivery times or accept idles. I do both. And it is possible to attain all these statuses. If you want I could coach you on LCCs, there's really not much to it.
All the best,
Hake

[Airboss777]

This unsolicited review would have taken you some time to compile & so I respect that. I agree with many of the points raised. There are frustrations in the game, & it can be repetitive, but in all your critique you haven't mentioned anything about having a sense of imagination.

The games' simplicity is one of it's best features - there are far more "realistic" (read complicated) airline simulation games out there, but they're slow, boring, & way beyond most people's attention spans. A game might take 5 months here, but each game-day things change. As it is, many of the game worlds have now been reduced from 40 to 30 years. And don't forget, this game is free.

I would caution you that unless you're an investor prepared to throw in millions of dollars, be careful taking an armchair view of something the owners & developers have devoted years of their lives to. If you have the talent to produce your own online game then go ahead & do it. Otherwise address your suggestions directly to the developers rather than telling everyone how you would do things differently. It's just rude.

[Pagan]

I LOVE points 1, 3 & 6 they give the game a great layer of strategy and help to vary the game play...they remind me of Civilization. I wouldn't agree with #4 though because my personal favorite pastime is finding the niches that no one else is in, in those unknown little airports, and your bonuses and specializations would make that all the more possible. 

[Mr. Wonderful]

I dont think music would be good. And about the time thing, People from asia play too and Africa and the Americas. Dont forget about the European players.

[Boing the Ostrich]

This

[S K Y]

The suggestions are interesting but I don't know...

Maybe I don't play AE to win.

Maybe I just want to pretend I'm having an airline, which I never will in real life.

Maybe I just want to have fun with Hake, bully Boing for being absent minded, got dicked by 101, finding wisdom in Stro's words, make North frustrated, poke Zipp's eye with a chopstick, poke Zipp's another eye with another chopstick, create an ugly livery and wait for Kai's constructive criticism that I know will never come, wait for Doc's return, etc., etc.

Yeah, that sounds fun

[Hake.]

The suggestions are interesting but I don't know...
Maybe I don't play AE to win.
Maybe I just want to pretend I'm having an airline, which I never will in real life.
Maybe I just want to have fun with Hake, bully Boing for being absent minded, got dicked by 101, finding wisdom in Stro's words, make North frustrated, poke Zipp's eye with a chopstick, poke Zipp's another eye with another chopstick, create an ugly livery and wait for Kai's constructive criticism that I know will never come, wait for Doc's return, etc., etc.
Yeah, that sounds fun

#remembercod949 The nice people in the community are worthy of a review. The not nice aren't as nice.

[dwight looi]

Added delivery model supplemental.

[S K Y]

And, Dwight, how much would you pay for such game?

[QK Flight Industries]

Impressive review. A few counterpoints I'd like to mention:

• There are a variety of different worlds offered, with different time periods and different speeds. Most worlds do center around 20 mins/day, but there are some worlds that run faster (15 mins/day) and slower (30 mins/day, I also believe there was at one time a world that ran at 1 hr/day, but it was discontinued due to lack of interest). If you want a slower world, the choice is there. I also believe that the dev (Yuxi) has on occasion modified gameplay based on specific player requests and/or solicited feedback (e.g. game speed, what era/years, duration, special challenges).
• Even though the rankings are based on valuation only, there are many players (some who have already posted before me) who ignore the ranking board and compete on their own merits, building the airline that meets their exacting vision. Some types of gameplay are very subjective, and thereby make a uniform ranking system controversial and difficult to implement.
• Events, as you call them, have been suggested many times. I've not seen any posts responding favorably to implementing them, mainly because even if the system is completely random, it would require the player to be able to interact with the airline on a daily basis at minimum and thereby be considered unfair to other players. 
• Some benefits that you mention for specialized gameplay are already implemented, although it may not be immediately obvious (e.g. reduced maintenance costs for limited fleet types, increased "reputation" for timeliness, in flight services, etc.)
• Limiting the number of airports available for gameplay would (in my opinion) defeat the purpose of having such a detailed database of airport locations and pax numbers. Also, how do you choose which airports to "close?" It seems any implementation would bear the possibility of making certain locations completely impossible to operate out of, and interfere with the player's ability to operate their airline in their chosen manner.
• Realistic delivery schedules have been discussed (and quite possibly still are) for AE4, which is supposed to be the next version of AE (and new code from the ground up). You can check out the thread here.

 
AI... that's an interesting concept. Not sure if the dev has the computing power required to run hundreds of AI airlines, but it'd be neat to see a completely AI world.

[iquit]

This way you'll out pace the growth rate of your competition and win.

Really?

[dwight looi]

Impressive review. A few counterpoints I'd like to mention:

• There are a variety of different worlds offered, with different time periods and different speeds. Most worlds do center around 20 mins/day, but there are some worlds that run faster (15 mins/day) and slower (30 mins/day, I also believe there was at one time a world that ran at 1 hr/day, but it was discontinued due to lack of interest). If you want a slower world, the choice is there. I also believe that the dev (Yuxi) has on occasion modified gameplay based on specific player requests and/or solicited feedback (e.g. game speed, what era/years, duration, special challenges).
• Even though the rankings are based on valuation only, there are many players (some who have already posted before me) who ignore the ranking board and compete on their own merits, building the airline that meets their exacting vision. Some types of gameplay are very subjective, and thereby make a uniform ranking system controversial and difficult to implement.
• Events, as you call them, have been suggested many times. I've not seen any posts responding favorably to implementing them, mainly because even if the system is completely random, it would require the player to be able to interact with the airline on a daily basis at minimum and thereby be considered unfair to other players. 
• Some benefits that you mention for specialized gameplay are already implemented, although it may not be immediately obvious (e.g. reduced maintenance costs for limited fleet types, increased "reputation" for timeliness, in flight services, etc.)
• Limiting the number of airports available for gameplay would (in my opinion) defeat the purpose of having such a detailed database of airport locations and pax numbers. Also, how do you choose which airports to "close?" It seems any implementation would bear the possibility of making certain locations completely impossible to operate out of, and interfere with the player's ability to operate their airline in their chosen manner.
• Realistic delivery schedules have been discussed (and quite possibly still are) for AE4, which is supposed to be the next version of AE (and new code from the ground up). You can check out the thread here.

 
AI... that's an interesting concept. Not sure if the dev has the computing power required to run hundreds of AI airlines, but it'd be neat to see a completely AI world.

 

Three things...

 

(1) A lot of it comes down to a coarser time resolution. If each game turn is 1 year or even a season (3 months), you don't need as much computing power because you are doing 1/365 or 1/90th as much recalculations. Also, you can have a game that spans a 30~40 year era over a month or a few months, without having to have people wake up in the middle of the night or let their airline languish. Still, if you look at the algorithms needed for doing the kind of things mentioned... they are largely quadratic functions of the number of players -- X^2 functions if you will. That... for all intents and purposes can be done on an Apple II with a 6502 processor running a tad shy of 1 MHz in a minute or so. We are way past that even today!

 

(2) A Uniform Ranking system is not difficult to implement or regulate. In fact, this is something which costs next to nothing in terms of server load. You can also have different rankings if you want... say Passengers (passengers carried), Network (# destinations), Reputation and Profitable (Operating Profit). You can have an overall winner which has the highest rank of all the separate rankings combined.

 

(3) I'll rather have all the active bonus be on on screen rather than be buried in the maintenance reports or airline options. Basically maintenance is all calculated one way... you then either have a bonus reduction or you don't. I find that comprehension is a prerequisite for enjoyment as far as strategy games go. People who likes to do things they don't understand probably enjoy paying taxes under the US Tax code rather than playing games!

[QK Flight Industries]

Three things...

 

(1) A lot of it comes down to a coarser time resolution. If each game turn is 1 year or even a season (3 months), you don't need as much computing power because you are doing 1/365 or 1/90th as much recalculations. Also, you can have a game that spans a 30~40 year era over a month or a few months, without having to have people wake up in the middle of the night or let their airline languish. Still, if you look at the algorithms needed for doing the kind of things mentioned... they are largely quadratic functions of the number of players -- X^2 functions if you will. That... for all intents and purposes can be done on an Apple II with a 6502 processor running a tad shy of 1 MHz in a minute or so. We are way past that even today!

 

(2) A Uniform Ranking system is not difficult to implement or regulate. In fact, this is something which costs next to nothing in terms of server load. You can also have different rankings if you want... say Passengers (passengers carried), Network (# destinations), Reputation and Profitable (Operating Profit). You can have an overall winner which has the highest rank of all the separate rankings combined.

 

(3) I'll rather have all the active bonus be on on screen rather than be buried in the maintenance reports or airline options. Basically maintenance is all calculated one way... you then either have a bonus reduction or you don't. I find that comprehension is a prerequisite for enjoyment as far as strategy games go. People who likes to do things they don't understand probably enjoy paying taxes under the US Tax code rather than playing games!

 

(1) I'd have to double check, but most games do run a 30-40 year period over a couple months, give or take. Anyone else care to verify? For the most common gamespeeds, three months occur per 24 hours (20mins/gameday → 120-160 days, or 3-4 months), whereas slower worlds run at two months per 24 hours (30mins/gameday → 180-240 days, or 5-6 months). Once most airlines are established, they don't require constant attention, meaning a few days (or potentially a week or so) can go between checkins. Now, if I'm misunderstanding you, and you want to limit each world to one year (or three months) of operation before reset, I fail to see how an airline of any size could be established.

 

(2) A uniform ranking system based on pure statistics is already implemented. If you look at the rankings page, each category can be selected as the sort index (reputation index, destinations, number of aircraft, number of flights, number of hubs, daily flights, daily pax, daily distance, valuation). While the numerical rank remains linked to the airline's valuation, it is possible to determine airline ranking by any of the other statistics. Now the one stat that you mentioned that is not visible is DOP, but if you asked Yuxi, he may consider implementing it. (Look at the blue-turquoise title bar, you'll see two vertically oriented chevron arrows that indicate the table can be sorted by that column.)

 

(3) It's not so much a bonus, rather, maintenance costs are calculated by a base value for an aircraft type, and then an additional fee is assessed per airframe based on said airframe's age. So, if you limit yourself to one aircraft type, you pay only one base value; two aircraft types, two base values; three aircraft types, three base values; etc. It's not nearly as complicated as the US Tax Code, in fact, it's very straightforward.

(3 cont'd) note the gold colored base costs: they are much much higher than the actual maintenance cost for each individual airframe. Therefore, if you utilize fleet commonality, you reduce the number of base costs you have to pay, and thereby benefit from the reduced costs. Introducing extra bonuses would decrease accuracy and somewhat defeat the purpose of having base costs in the first place.

[Hake.]

You can also have different rankings if you want... say Passengers (passengers carried), Network (# destinations), Reputation and Profitable (Operating Profit). You can have an overall winner which has the highest rank of all the separate rankings combined.

That system wouldn't facilitate people who don't play to win. While an airline who flies a 98 | 420 A380 might be lovely to fly with IRL, and better than a 12 | 84 | 665 A380 (done before), none of this makes a different with your proposed ranking system. Now, I'm not sure if you're familiar with the work of AE4, but many similar changes will be implemented.

strategy games

This shows our differing views perfectly.

[Luft]

The good part about AE as it is that it accommodates for a huge variety of ways to play the game, and a whole range of options on how to run your airline.

[Tesla]

It depends. I'm happy with low to mid 50s finishes, maybe higher if i'm lucky.

[tlacey]

I actually don't mind what Dwight has said, although it does depend heavily on how you want to play. I've been playing for almost 5 years now and what drove me away from the game was the 'spammy' airlines which just dominated every airport, and every route and didn't care about realism or profit. The biggest problem with the game is that genuine players want to create realistic airlines using realistic models and with realistic PAX loads. The moment someone creates an unrealistic airline using unrealistic models and unrealistic PAX loads the game becomes un-fun and boring. 

 

It's a shame but a reality. The few ruin this game for the many.