19 replies to this topic

[night owl]

Seriously? A Bonanza with 1C and 3Y passengers? I guess the pilot is occupying the business class seat. He's busy after all... lol. Or have you seen all these passenger liners with 1F seat? Have any of these people ever seen a plane in the real world from the inside? Has there ever been even one plane with a single first or business class seat? What if two business associates want to fly together? Personally I equip none of my planes with less than 4F seats, or I skip first class altogether, and while I wouldn't even consider a Bonanza ig, if I flew one, I'd give it a straight Y interior. Simply because nothing else makes sense. (or a straight C or straight F interior. The only difference between those for the passenger is the price then. Same 5 seats in each case in the real world, and nothing but a snack at most. There's a reason after all why the Bonanza is called a 'private' plane) But that's just my opinion. Yours may differ. I'd like to find out how people actually feel about it. So let's have a poll, ok?

[TheMan]

Seriously? A Bonanza with 1C and 3Y passengers? I guess the pilot is occupying the business class seat. He's busy after all... lol. Or have you seen all these passenger liners with 1F seat? Have any of these people ever seen a plane in the real world from the inside? Has there ever been even one plane with a single first or business class seat? What if two business associates want to fly together? Personally I equip none of my planes with less than 4F seats, or I skip first class altogether, and while I wouldn't even consider a Bonanza ig, if I flew one, I'd give it a straight Y interior. Simply because nothing else makes sense. (or a straight C or straight F interior. The only difference between those for the passenger is the price then. Same 5 seats in each case in the real world, and nothing but a snack at most. There's a reason after all why the Bonanza is called a 'private' plane) But that's just my opinion. Yours may differ. I'd like to find out how people actually feel about it. So let's have a poll, ok?

youre completely right.

[Hake.]

Generally I leave anything smaller than a 757 as 1 Class, usually taking Aer Lingus, BA or BMI configs. I'll point out also Business Class makes no economic sense on routes <300 miles. Even on my spamlines I tend to use real world configs.

[TNT88]

You can't force democracy to everyone, oh wait....

[night owl]

I'm not trying to force anyone to do anything. It's useless to apply force to something you have no influence over after all. But maybe some could think a little harder what realism might mean in this game. And in the process we could all enjoy the game a little more as well. There is only one king of the hill at any one time, but any airline could be fun to play in the right spirit. Who knows, even something off beat like a helicopter operation in NY could be fun. Well, it wouldn't be, because it would go under inside of a couple of month most likely... yeah, I realize that realism can only be carried so far here. There are lots of aspects that lack realism. I just saw those Bonanzas, and... oh well...

[Mobeer]

I think one of the difficulties at present is defining what a class-X seat is? To give real-world examples:

Hawaiian Airlines A330-200 First Class:
Pitch: 46"
Width: 18.5"
Recliner seat

Lufthansa A380-800 First Class:
Pitch: 90"
Width: 31.5"
Flat bed (180 degree recline)

Lufthansa A380-800 Business Class:
Pitch: 57"
Width: 19.6"
Angle flat seat (168 degree recline)

 

Lufthansa ATR-72 Business Class:

Pitch: 30"
Width: 17"  (neighbour left empty)
Ordinary Seat

So the Lufthansa Business is better than the Hawaiian First, if considering an A380 and not when considering an ATR.

Like Lufthansa, I tend to think when imagining my own airline that the meaning of F, C and Y relates to the type of plane, so for example C (business) in a A330 is much nicer than C (maybe premium economy or an exit row economy) in a A320.
 

[night owl]

Well, as always, you need to put things into context. First of all, I would say that it's only fair to note that Hawaiian doesn't play on the same level as LH does. They have fewer resources and their longest flights are probably quite a bit shorter than LH's. While I'm not familiar with Hawaiian, since my last flight with them dates back to 1986, as a Lufthansa Senator I know LH and the equipment it flies quite well. Actually it doesn't fly any ATR's at present, nor did it in the past as far as I know. Their smallest planes are Boeing 737-300's. You may possibly refer to Tyrolean ATR's though, which fly for Austrian, which in turn belongs to Lufthansa and do code shares of course. Nevertheless you are correct that on short haul flights LH offers the same type of seat as economy with one small difference on at least some of their planes. Since the middle seat remains empty, the armrests are angled out and so you do have a little more space than in economy. Something that hardly anyone notices, but it does make a difference. However the case may be, it's quite easy to see that you have three distinct types of plane here. An intercontinental plane with the A380, which routinely flies 10 to 14 hour legs, then the A330, a plane that is in theory capable of flying almost the same routes, but in practice with Hawaiian will more likely be airborne only five to six hours, and a regional plane that's usually back on the ground within an hour or an hour and a half. So it all makes perfect sense. The most comfortable seat for the longest most tiring flight, and what amounts to nothing more than an economy seat with a little extra room on short hops. Hawaiian of course falls neatly in the middle.

 

It's not always that clear cut though. Business class differs drastically from one airline to the next in terms of available space and comfort. While everyone always seems quickly willing to chime in when it comes to praising Emirates, they have some very narrow business class seats with three seats next to each other in the middle row, which despite the fancy wooden trim of the seat makes me think of economy more than business class. If you haven't had a chance to look at those, just have a look at the business class seats of United, and you get a pretty good idea. On the other hand, an airline like Air China, which people seem quite willing to bash a lot of the time, has seats that are wider and provide much more space lengthwise than either Emirates, or LH for that matter. Same goes for Singapore and Korean airlines. Asian airlines generally seem to offer more space and comfort than the rest on long haul flights.

 

Last but not least, not just the business class experience stands or falls with the service, doesn't it? I'm much more likely to accept a narrower seat, if the flight attendants are friendly and quick to respond to my needs. Recently I flew with Turkish Airlines in business class, and they served my food together with a little electronic candle placed in a small paper lantern. Kinda like a candle light dinner in the sky. They also have a real cook on the plane, and everyone was all smiles and almost anticipated my wishes before I could voice them. Nice. I like to feel welcome and cared for. So the service plays a large part in how satisfied I am after a flight. Ig I see all those flights with little or no service. Really? Unless you want to emulate a trashy airline like Ryan Air, you should probably invest in some service if you want your customers to keep coming back. I'm not sure how much the impact ig is, but last year I flew with Spirit Air from Chicago to New York. They actually made people pay to put their hand carry on into the overhead compartment. Of course hardly anyone paid. Which resulted in the emptiest overhead compartments I have ever seen, and a plane load full of people who didn't know where to put their feet. Well, it was my first, and definitely last flight with that particular carrier. The point I'm making is this: there's really quite a bit that the game offers as far as seating and service goes. I think it should be used more extensively, and failure to make use of it should be penalized quite heavily. And again, this is only my very own and humble opinion. Of course everyone should have fun playing the game however they want. But then this does say: realistic world, doesn't it?

[.Julicos.]

I use normaly on my aircrafts 4 F seats 10-12 C seats and and the other Y.On R-0 now the bigest jet airliner is DC 8-61 on that i have 6F 12C 220 Y.

[night owl]

That sounds reasonable enough to me. Actually flying used to be much more expensive in the sixties, and they had larger first class compartments on the jets, but the game doesn't really support those numbers. When jets first came into use, they only had two classes actually, really more of a first class / business class arrangement compared to todays' standards, especially on long haul flights, and no economy class the way we're used to see now. The name economy class only came into being in the seventies, if I remember correctly. Before they called it custom coach or something. Correct me, if I'm wrong. And on short hops, they often had only one class, which if you take into account how expensive it was to fly, didn't really quallify as economy either. Cheapo airlines only started up towards the end of the seventies. And of course when they deregulated the market in the early eighties, prices fell dramatically, and an all out price war raged between the airlines. That's why such reputable airlines as Eastern went under.

Well, you can only expect so much realism from a game such as this, and in a way it represents an alternative reality I guess. So I come full circle, and have to admit that any way you play it is probably ok.

[Med.]

Let's face it. This happens because the game allows it and sometimes even makes it feasible. In the real world, if not only for engineering limitations, available technologies, supplier options, etc. I'm sure we would see this kind of things too.

[TNT88]

But don't forget that lots of reputable airlines do go under or declared bankruptcy in real life, low-cost airlines do affect real life aviation. If you see the condition in AE and Real Life aviation, it's not that different. Ryanair for instance are the2nd biggest Airline in Europe, while Lion Air are the biggest one in Indonesia, Southwest are one of the biggest in USA and EasyJet being number 5 on the list in Europe. It just shown that in real life, Flag Carrier or Reputable Airlines do struggle to compete with low-cost carrier, which is just what happen in AE, the mumbling of most AE players are just as realistic as the mumbling of the CEO of most reputable airlines in real life. 

[night owl]

Well, you'll certainly not see a Ryanair plane equipped with a single first class seat, because no self respecting first class passenger, even if he was the born, die hard hermit at heart would ever consider flying with such an airline. But in game these seats get sold every time.

[TNT88]

You see, you judging those people from your "Realism" perspective, which means a low cost carrier shouldn't sell any premium service in the game, and in real life, you're right. But since this is a game, and even The System actually allowed it, it would become acceptable.

[Hake.]

Well tnt, I'll take the example of Irish airports here. Although Ryanair can be so much cheaper than Aer Lingus, Aer Lingus continue to carry very large amounts of passengers to more destinations than Ryanair. Why? Even though they are LCC, they are better than FR. 4 daily flights to Heathrow with Aer Lingus (with A319/ A320s) carry much more passengers than the daily flight that Ryanair fly from Cork.

[TNT88]

Well tnt, I'll take the example of Irish airports here. Although Ryanair can be so much cheaper than Aer Lingus, Aer Lingus continue to carry very large amounts of passengers to more destinations than Ryanair. Why? Even though they are LCC, they are better than FR. 4 daily flights to Heathrow with Aer Lingus (with A319/ A320s) carry much more passengers than the daily flight that Ryanair fly from Cork.

I don't understand your explanation

[Hake.]

I don't understand your explanation

People pay extra for Aer Lingus. 

[night owl]

The point that this is a game and different things are allowable in game than in the real world is indisputable. But there is a correlation, however slight, to the real world, isn't there? Otherwise the game's name would probably be something like 'Sell the Seat' or something like that, right? As it were. it tries to simulate the operation of an airline, and in this specific world with a certain measure of realism. So I don't think I'm completely intolerant, if I would rather not see things that are unthinkable in the real world.

[TNT88]

People pay extra for Aer Lingus. 

Okay.... I still don't understand the relations between my theory and your comment earlier, sorry about that

[bcrath]

I generally do either first and business class on the plane, business and economy, or pure economy class.

My A380 has 100 business and 693 economy class seats, or just straight 853 economy. Somehow, I still get a 65 legroom rating and 70+ route reputation.

[Anto Adhiatma]

And one more thing, i guess it would be more realistic when using FCY setup, that F class price wont drop below C class price...*i dunno, but i find that the engine allow F class price cheaper than C class price, for 100% pax..