50 replies to this topic

[highspeed]

Originally posted by Skycap
Feeder airlines, in the real world, are perfectly legit and numerous. They shouldn't be "banned,"so to speak. A feeder is a great way to develop.

Erm... we are talking about comparing the real world against AE, are we?

If so: feeder airlines are operated by thieves. There's nothing legit in selling one's assets for a too low price to "friends" and then go chapter 11. This is nothing less than stealing. This is not a great way to develop. It is pure fraud, it harms others directly (you want to be paid if you sell something, right?), it harms competition and what more. Often a chain reaction occurs and multiple companies end up dead.

I truely hope that this was an error on your part.

[mikemather]

The simplest solution is to restrict aircraft sales to current value or greater -and gates cannot be returned until after one year - now there is no advantage to starting a feeder airline.

[travelhouse]

Originally posted by Nathaniel
that wouldnt work because its just not a good system.. there has got to be a solution with email verification and maybe applicaitons to be reviewed, or even better, close registration

The latter you said, (Close Reg) only when there is no or limited gates and look at a limit of 1,000 players is the best suggestion all AE year.

[mikemather]

Originally posted by Nathaniel
that wouldnt work because its just not a good system.. there has got to be a solution with email verification and maybe applicaitons to be reviewed, or even better, close registration

Hi Nat,
I don't understand, if the problem with feeders is that they sell aircraft for half price and you restrict the price to current value how is that no good?
Mike

[Edited on 8/11/2005 by mikemather]

[jackthestrip]

Well to be honest, as I have done in the past, I need to sell A/C undervalue just so I can get cash in the bank. The last reason to do this was the change in credit but we wont go there.

There is nothing wrong with selling an a/c under value. The main issue in this thread is that it is possible to set up a new airline in a citie that are currently full. Obtaining a gate and then releasing it. Once released then you can buy the gate straight away, hey presto, another gate!!!!!

As gates continue to sell out then this practice will only increase and it needs to be nipped in the bud now. Hence travelhouse's suggestion. I appriciate that feeder airlines can sell aircraft but for the fair player the gate situation is VERY alarming.

[highspeed]

I don't understand, if the problem with feeders is that they sell aircraft for half price and you restrict the price to current value how is that no good?
Mike

Apart from the gates, this still doesn't solve the problem of cheaters's money increasing. Feeders can feed either aircraft or money. And even when aircraft can only be sold at 100% then this is still not enough. Hint: aircraft depriciation.

[jackthestrip]

I like the idea of not being able to sell your first aircraft for one full AE year. This would have help curb the feeder airlines. Plus change the way some players aproach the start of a new game once reset IE Selling planes straight away to get a q400 on order.

Unfortunatly I think we have to accept that no matter what you do, a minority will always try cheat and in some cases succeed. However we all have a responisbility to ensure this is as difficult as possible. All players stay vigilant and miller should try implement new fetures to help prevent cheating.

[mikemather]

Maybe paying for the game would be the solution.

[Skycap]

Highspeed, what the hell are you smoking?

> Erm... we are talking about comparing the real world against AE, are we?

Yes.

> If so: feeder airlines are operated by thieves.

In the real world? So then, all US Airways Express regional carriers are thieves! Is that what you're saying? NEWSFLASH! A feeder airline is also called a commuter - in the real world.

If I understand this right, what's happening in AE is that someone starts up two airlines, buys aircraft with one and then sells the aircraft at a reduced price to the other and kills the "buyer" airline, right? That's not a feeder airline - that's a cheater. Try a different term next time.

A true feeder airline, in terms of the real world, is one that serves to FEED a larger city with traffic from surrounding smaller cities. (DUH) They serve markets that are too small to be served by the mainline carriers. To start out this way, running smaller aircraft on feeder routes is a perfectly legit way to build up capital to expand. I hope you already understand this.

> I truely hope that this was an error on your part.

No, it was a gross misunderstanding on yours. No worries, just turn it up a notch and pay better attention next time.

[Edited on 11/9/2005 by Skycap]

[Skycap]

Further, to the issue of selling aircraft, if the number of hours flown are tracked or, even simply the date purchased, that can be the determining factor for automatically setting the sale price. So, if you bought a plane and then wanted to sell it two days later, it would depreciate very little, if at all.

About the gate situation, the idea that a new airline gets gates automatically would have to go. I would suggest that first, all airlines are limited to X gates at any airport (maybe 5 to 10 at most) - after that, they MUST build a terminal to gain more, releasing what they have back to the airport. Hey, many airlines only fly to an airport from their hubs anyway right? At most, they would only need about 5 gates to serve 5 hubs. That would just be a rough rule. After that, they would have to build.

Also, if an airline wishes to initiate service at an airport with no available gates (inadvisable), they could build their own mini-terminal to start. This would only be possible with a starting airline and if the airline declares bankruptcy, the gates would NOT go into the pool for the airport. It would be assumed that the airport authority reutilized the space or something.

[Skycap]

"ae is a perfect game with bugs"

You did mean an IMPERFECT game with bugs, right? If not, the above is a contraction; ie: A perfect game that's imprefect.

[Maestro69]

I honestly dont think highspeed got ur point skycap, but anyways....

Skycap, some of ur ideas would be nice to see implemented in AE. Of course, thats up to Miller to decide to see if they are reasonable and worthwhile.

[highspeed]

Originally posted by Skycap
> If so: feeder airlines are operated by thieves.

In the real world? So then, all US Airways Express regional carriers are thieves! Is that what you're saying? NEWSFLASH! A feeder airline is also called a commuter - in the real world.

We are using the term "feeders" here in this thread in quite a different context. Yes, if you mean "bringing people to large airports" then you are absolutely correct: that's not a crime. Here however it means "bringing cheap aircraft to other airline". Yes, this happens in the real world as well. Buy something on credit, sell it to someone else, go bankrupt before paying your bills -on purpose-. Criminals.

[travelhouse]

Originally posted by highspeed

Originally posted by Skycap
> If so: feeder airlines are operated by thieves.

In the real world? So then, all US Airways Express regional carriers are thieves! Is that what you're saying? NEWSFLASH! A feeder airline is also called a commuter - in the real world.

We are using the term "feeders" here in this thread in quite a different context. Yes, if you mean "bringing people to large airports" then you are absolutely correct: that's not a crime. Here however it means "bringing cheap aircraft to other airline". Yes, this happens in the real world as well. Buy something on credit, sell it to someone else, go bankrupt before paying your bills -on purpose-. Criminals.

One must agree that there is a difference in :

1. Knowing that your buying for your own needs, like alliance members from eachother and those who need cash to place orders and a like ! (Not A Crime)

and

2. Making: as in AE words FEEDER to suit your own needs. This is to obtain gates, obtain cheaper low end aircraft and when this is used for this need, is left dormant. (This Is A Crime) Deception in Real Words.

[duckbilled]

Contrary to what some have said, my suggestion would help curb feeder airlines. It wouldn't cure it, it would slow it down. The whole process of using a feeder airline starts with the fact that they have two aircraft that they can sell to the real airline for 1/2 price. The main airline can have 4 aircraft quickly by selling the aircraft back and forth between their two airlines. If you actually have to buy all of your aircraft, things will be a lot tighter in the beginning if the cheapest aircraft it $9,000,000 and you only have $20,000,000 to begin with. As you can see, you would not have the ability to purchase two aircarft and purchase 1 at 1/2 price.

[mikemather]

One must agree that there is a difference in :

1. Knowing that your buying for your own needs, like alliance members from eachother and those who need cash to place orders and a like ! (Not A Crime)

and

2. Making: as in AE words FEEDER to suit your own needs. This is to obtain gates, obtain cheaper low end aircraft and when this is used for this need, is left dormant. (This Is A Crime) Deception in Real Words. [/quote]

Are you saying that buying 1/2 price aircraft from an alliance member is okay?

[travelhouse]

[quote]Originally posted by mikemather
One must agree that there is a difference in :

1. Knowing that your buying for your own needs, like alliance members from each other and those who need cash to place orders and a like ! (Not A Crime)

and

2. Making: as in AE words FEEDER to suit your own needs. This is to obtain gates, obtain cheaper low end aircraft and when this is used for this need, is left dormant. (This Is A Crime) Deception in Real Words. [/quote]

Are you saying that buying 1/2 price aircraft from an alliance member is okay? [/quote]

No I didnt state that at all, the sale of inter-alliance members should be governed by a + or - of 10% to 33% not your suggested 1/2 price.

If and where does it say I agree to this 1/2 price factor?

[mikemather]

I didn't suggest that you said half price - I asked if half price is okay. By your response you state that 33% is okay, I suggest that that too is high.