33 replies to this topic

[LATAM]

Hi to all fellow AE members!

 

As many of you know, America are facing the biggest international scandal since God knows when, about the NSA (America) spying on over 20 different world leaders, including the German Chancellor Angela Merkel. Apart from that, various other countries are reporting that they have been spied on including France, Italy, Spain and Mexico, all allies of America which claim to have been spied on.

 

What do you think about the spying allegations by various countries and the release of secret documents by the whistleblower Snowden (One of my heroes) about America spying on the rest of the world.

 

Please add any interesting or creative responses under.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

P.S I am not a big fan of America and the UK.

 

[zipp]

Most of AE doesn't care.

I for one, Laugh at the States remind the Germans of the crimes they commited during the Second World War.

Can I remind the Yanks of 2 atomic bombs dropped on Japan, killing upto 246,000 people.

Good Day.

[LATAM]

ok.... i expected more of a discussion but fine. i think that people should care because it is really important and should be something that the whole world cares about.

[Stevphfeniey]

I think the most surprising and disappointing thing about this is that people are surprised. 

[lake]

I think the most surprising and disappointing thing about this is that people are surprised. 

Exactly, it's been suspected for years. Also, if you think that this is just the US, you're blind. I wouldn't be surprised if almost every developed country in the world was spying on it's citizens/other countries with these means.

[Frdm920]

As an opinion column that I recently read written by a member of the intelligence community pointed out that America's problem wasn't that they spied on their 'friends' and 'allies' but that they got caught doing so, and that Obama's implausible denials are damaging his reputation amognst the community. I have to agree, everyone plays the game but America's the kid who bribed their way onto the team without truly knowing how to play, they've got a pretty horrible track record when it comes to spying on people and they managed to get caught doing it, can you see the British, French or the Russians (who Snowden seems to have now hooked up with) letting something of this magnitude slip and getting caught? I certainly can't.

 

I'll quote Bob Carr one of the previous Foreign Ministers for Australia who said it was a "safe assumption" that his phone calls were being monitored.

 

Also slightly of topic but still dealing with the same thing in regard's to Snowden's 'reveal' that Australia is/was spying on Indonesia and Malaysia well firstly good job on breaking operational secrecy and telling them exactly what and how we were doing it (although if the Indonesians and Malays didn't already know, what does that say about their spy agency?) and secondly "Wooo big deal" so we spy on our neighbours, who happen to be 'friends' but also happen to be one of the biggest threats to Australia when you put it like that, why wouldn't we spy on them?

 

I'm thinking the Indonesians, Malays and Germans are more pissed off at the fact they either didn't know it was happening or that they weren't able to counter it, rather than the fact it was happening.

[LATAM]

I think the most surprising and disappointing thing about this is that people are surprised. 

agreed but why would the US need to spy on the German leader

 

As an opinion column that I recently read written by a member of the intelligence community pointed out that America's problem wasn't that they spied on their 'friends' and 'allies' but that they got caught doing so, and that Obama's implausible denials are damaging his reputation amognst the community. I have to agree, everyone plays the game but America's the kid who bribed their way onto the team without truly knowing how to play, they've got a pretty horrible track record when it comes to spying on people and they managed to get caught doing it, can you see the British, French or the Russians (who Snowden seems to have now hooked up with) letting something of this magnitude slip and getting caught? I certainly can't.

 

I'll quote Bob Carr one of the previous Foreign Ministers for Australia who said it was a "safe assumption" that his phone calls were being monitored.

 

Also slightly of topic but still dealing with the same thing in regard's to Snowden's 'reveal' that Australia is/was spying on Indonesia and Malaysia well firstly good job on breaking operational secrecy and telling them exactly what and how we were doing it (although if the Indonesians and Malays didn't already know, what does that say about their spy agency?) and secondly "Wooo big deal" so we spy on our neighbours, who happen to be 'friends' but also happen to be one of the biggest threats to Australia when you put it like that, why wouldn't we spy on them?

 

I'm thinking the Indonesians, Malays and Germans are more pissed off at the fact they either didn't know it was happening or that they weren't able to counter it, rather than the fact it was happening.

makes a lot of sense. The Germans, French, Italians etc don't have any major way to repulse these scandals. But what use would it be for the US to actually spy on French or Italian citizens. and the the group that did get spied on don't seem like much a threat to me since the french etc have been allies with the US for yonks. Just as FoxTrident said, why spy on innocent civilians without any proof that they are enemies of the US. 

 

And i agree that loads of people knew that the Americans had been spying on someone just know-one knew who was being spied on (if that makes sense). Like the US has loads of anti-terrorist organisations, CIA, NSA and FBI which all at some point did some kinda spying. (much less FBI). 

 

and I also agree that trying to defend yourself for spying on civilians is not right, and there should be no need to actually spy on Italians, France, Spain etc because these countries are NOT known to have terrorists which are enemies of the US...

[lurch]

Spying has been happening for decades, it is nothing new. What has changed is that the technology has improved, making it easier for countries and/or groups to do it.  I am not happy that spying is done on citizens but I do not think that it will be stopped. If we close one way of spying another will open.  I have to think that this might not be a scandal at all but a plan to get it out there that the US can do this and has been doing it for years.  I say this because if terrorist groups know that it is happening, it could deter them from using any technology to communicate with each other making it much harder for anything to be carried out.  But I am a person that looks at all aspects of a case to try and see the positive and negative impact that it could have.

 

Just my 2 cents.

[Stevphfeniey]

It's kind of like my opinion of missiles with 500 mile ranges being used in dogfighting. If you're doing some spying with SR-71s or something, that's fine (possibly due to the human risk and cost involved), but there's just something creepier about having some snub sitting at a computer tapping into public modes of communication to spy on private individuals. 

[LATAM]

It's kind of like my opinion of missiles with 500 mile ranges being used in dogfighting. If you're doing some spying with SR-71s or something, that's fine (possibly due to the human risk and cost involved), but there's just something creepier about having some snub sitting at a computer tapping into public modes of communication to spy on private individuals. 

i dont think it was like that, if i am not mistaken (probably am  ) the NSA used massive computers to collect all this information (60 million or similar calls, texts and internet usage pieces of information) and then people would sort it out and decide what WAS a threat and what was NOT a threat. not sure though...

[Hake.]

I personally hate American governments for that. And for the record, most developed countries don't have the capacity for wide scale spying. But then again, I think the "War on Terror" was a bigger travesty but it isn't highlighted because they have the "Coalition of the Willing" on their side, to prevent the media turning against them.

[Stevphfeniey]

I'd say a huge number of developed countries have become adept at spying, and do it often. 

[jrbaytown]

Snowden is a traitor and as such he should be put to death.  All countries spy on each other and their own citizens.  All Snowden has done is put stress on the relationship between America and its allies that have taken years to build.  I would love to see him back on American soil so that he can pay, with his life, for what he has done.

[Stevphfeniey]

I think it's highlarious that America got caught with its pants down ****ing an old Venezuelan transvestite prostitute. 

[**OLT@22.Hrvatska**]

And people didn't expect to be spied on by the US?? Just wait till the news of other countries spying comes out...

[LATAM]

I personally hate American governments for that. And for the record, most developed countries don't have the capacity for wide scale spying. But then again, I think the "War on Terror" was a bigger travesty but it isn't highlighted because they have the "Coalition of the Willing" on their side, to prevent the media turning against them.

i completely agree.

 

And people didn't expect to be spied on by the US?? Just wait till the news of other countries spying comes out...

but its the amount of spying that has happened, and that Obama, Kerry etc 'claimed' it was not happening, then decided to defend it, then to review what it was doing wrong. 

 

Snowden is a traitor and as such he should be put to death.  All countries spy on each other and their own citizens.  All Snowden has done is put stress on the relationship between America and its allies that have taken years to build.  I would love to see him back on American soil so that he can pay, with his life, for what he has done.

Snowden is a hero! And should NEVER be put to death. You can't prove that all other countries spy on each other as that is mass generalisation. And if i am not wrong (correct me if i am) America (NSA) never spied on on its citizens but in foreign/allies citizens. Inc. the French. He has once again proved that America has lost all its power in the world and is on the brink of collapse. just look at the recent Government shutdown that threatened to default America. There was an article in the BBC which said this:

'Taken out of context, the numbers are staggering. The US has a total debt pile of almost $17 trillion (£10.6 trillion), which is expected to rise to almost $23tn in the next five years.'  These numbers are massive. 

 

 

Just to end! All whistelblowers are HERO's because they did what is RIGHT and not what is WRONG.

[Stevphfeniey]

*HEROES

[LATAM]

thanks

[mxax-ai]

Also slightly of topic but still dealing with the same thing in regard's to Snowden's 'reveal' that Australia is/was spying on Indonesia and Malaysia well firstly good job on breaking operational secrecy and telling them exactly what and how we were doing it (although if the Indonesians and Malays didn't already know, what does that say about their spy agency?) and secondly "Wooo big deal" so we spy on our neighbours, who happen to be 'friends' but also happen to be one of the biggest threats to Australia when you put it like that, why wouldn't we spy on them?

 

I'm thinking the Indonesians, Malays and Germans are more pissed off at the fact they either didn't know it was happening or that they weren't able to counter it, rather than the fact it was happening.

Considering threats to Australia being virtually nonexistent - apart of the occasional terrorist, but how much terrorism has there been lately? - it's rather easy to call neighbouring countries "biggest threats". And I think what at least th european governments are pissed off at is for one part surely that they couldn't counter it, but also that a foreign country spied out their own civil population. Possibly the danger of industrial spying came to that as well.

I for one don't believe the talk of no european government knowing about it. Actually it is much more likely that they cooperated but simply did not know the full extent of the espionage.