78 replies to this topic

[violetQueen]

Excuse me, but BA was founded the evening before you made your research, and when I went to sleep I had been under heavy competition on ALL my routes except for AMS, I'm surprised you didn't look at any of the others like BHX-LHR were C was $10 and Y was $5... or BHX-LBA where C and Y were $5? Of course not... I had already been pushed from LHR which is my "base", so my only option to survive was to adopt a cheap IFS, surprisingly though it wasn't the "scam" ifs as you paint it... I was offering 1* snacks for $5... I'd hardly call that a scam.

JAS wasn't in such a bad situation, I was trying out different IFS styles with JAS and if you had cared to look a little after your "research", when I had more than one aircraft and route, I had introduced different service levels on every single route... But again, that would be too easy. I believe in the real world they take a sample of at least three before making accusations like yours.

Another error in your statement, Mr Riddler, is that the routes were "flagship" routes and "long-haul"... since when was BHX-AMS a flagship or long-haul route (it's only 273 miles)? I'd consider my flag-ship route LHR-BHX. And JAS's route was between HND and ITM, which.. well.. that was the airline's only route at the time you looked at it and at 250 miles, I don't see how that requires 3 meals and snacks...

Please, get your facts straight before trying to discredit others.

[Obelix]

The so called scam IFS barely makes 15% of total revenue which doesn't even cover leasing, maintenance and operating costs. so I doubt it can be used for rapid expansion of any airline even when used on long haul routes.

[Obelix]

i hiigly disagree with this.

and if this is true, why were you promoting it huh?

Here's a bit of information that might help you do the math.



Using or promoting an IFS configuration that makes economical sense and uses the current AE economics and marketing tools available to offer a profitable short and medium haul service for FC or a LCC profitable service shouldn't be considered a scam.

[2ndAcr]

Dang and here I am serving 5 star meals for free this entire time. I am spending almost a billion bucks on IFS and not charging a penny for it........what an idiot. LOL

Well, 5 star for 1st, 4 star for business and 3 star for economy........regional get 5 star snacks for free............I need to make some adjustments.

http://s1270.photobu...=airlineIFS.jpg

Only because I am an idiot posting screenshots here for some reason.

[Obelix]

Dang and here I am serving 5 star meals for free this entire time. I am spending almost a billion bucks on IFS and not charging a penny for it........what an idiot. LOL

Well, 5 star for 1st, 4 star for business and 3 star for economy........regional get 5 star snacks for free............I need to make some adjustments.

It takes a minute or so for the "so called" AE guru's to raise a complaint about using the current AE economics, marketing and rating system in a beneficial way for you.

[2ndAcr]

I have something making me a whopping 200,000 or so per month, but no clue where or what it is. But it isn't going to dent my costs.

I think I have one IFS setup that charges 50% of the cost of the meal.........don't think I ever used that or not. So instead of 275 mil a day on straight fares, I could be making 500 mil a day. Nice. LOL

[M4matthew]

Excuse me, but BA was founded the evening before you made your research, and when I went to sleep I had been under heavy competition on ALL my routes except for AMS, I'm surprised you didn't look at any of the others like BHX-LHR were C was $10 and Y was $5... or BHX-LBA where C and Y were $5? Of course not... I had already been pushed from LHR which is my "base", so my only option to survive was to adopt a cheap IFS, surprisingly though it wasn't the "scam" ifs as you paint it... I was offering 1* snacks for $5... I'd hardly call that a scam.

So let me get this straight, you're using low IFS so you can grow quickly?
Yet your selling $5 tickets... how is that, in any way, going to help you grow quickly? I don't know, I could be wrong?

Another error in your statement, Mr Riddler, is that the routes were "flagship" routes and "long-haul"... since when was BHX-AMS a flagship or long-haul route (it's only 273 miles)? I'd consider my flag-ship route LHR-BHX. And JAS's route was between HND and ITM, which.. well.. that was the airline's only route at the time you looked at it and at 250 miles, I don't see how that requires 3 meals and snacks...

Ok, let's go back to what I actually said; instead of just taking snippets and manipulating it to suit your argument.
"these are all flagship (mostly long haul) routes" ...I said "mostly long haul", not "all long haul".

Actually JAS had several routes when I conducted my research but I chose HND-ITM as they were the two largest cities you flew to.

However I do complement Sheepy's quick actions at getting this issue sorted quickly.

[violetQueen]

So let me get this straight, you're using low IFS so you can grow quickly?
Yet your selling $5 tickets... how is that, in any way, going to help you grow quickly? I don't know, I could be wrong?



Ok, let's go back to what I actually said; instead of just taking snippets and manipulating it to suit your argument.
"these are all flagship (mostly long haul) routes" ...I said "mostly long haul", not "all long haul".

Actually JAS had several routes when I conducted my research but I chose HND-ITM as they were the two largest cities you flew to.

However I do complement Sheepy's quick actions at getting this issue sorted quickly.

$5 tickets; Yes because every time I closed a route and opened a new one my competitor followed me with 767s flooding the market... and dropping the price.

I didn't manipulate anything, Mr. Riddler, you should just conduct your research to a higher standard if you are going to whine about quality.

Matter of fact JAS didn't have more than one route because I didn't implement the other routes until AFTER I read your post, maybe your eyesight is bad as well as your judgement.

Here, have some cheese to go with your whine.

[2ndAcr]

I really hate when someone does that.......I would have bankrupted myself putting him out of business. An alliance member or more should have jumped on that airline too to take the heat off you.

[M4matthew]

I didn't manipulate anything, Mr. Riddler, you should just conduct your research to a higher standard if you are going to whine about quality.

I don't want to start an argument, but you did manipulate what I said. You made it sound like I called BHX-AMS 'long-haul' when I didn't. I said (when referring to all the different airline routes I'd looked at) "mostly long haul".
The only reason I said "mostly" was to stop an argument like this, I don't know why I bothered.

[Obelix]

Since the so called "AE Gurus" haven't said little to nothing so far it seems that they are still trying to figure out what revenue, profit or marketing is. Gave you a worksheet to do math.

[Sheepy]

From what I can deduce from the comments and Sheepy's complaint report, I can see the general consensus is scam IFS was used to produce rapid expansion ('easy cash') and to effectively compete with competitor airlines.

Let me say at this point, Greenline (R4) has grown successfully offering full IFS since its founding - based at Kona International.

I agree, it is possible to start with full IFS from the beginning in most cases. However, if scam IFS has the ability to completely crush another airline immediately, the future benefits are worth it. It is when this lingers on after competition has been removed that issues arise. Notable is the fact that the need for scam IFS varies significantly by base, and some people can do it and others can't.

Also, you started relatively late into R4. When being forced to order new, it is both more expensive and you are left longer with one aircraft. One alone will nearly always be unprofitable.

The second reason for the scam IFS, was to be able to compete with other airlines on lucrative routes. Again, I cannot fully accept this as an excuse as there are plenty of 'untapped' routes in all regions of R5 that I've found - due to the world's recent opening. Why not just fly and expand from these untapped regions - then once you have the cash - expand into the demand high markets, rather than doing it the other way around and offering scam IFS in the process.

I agree that there are significant portions of untapped pax in obscure locations, however, your logic insists that Kuala Lumpur to Kinshasa would be my flagship route.
Though scam IFS is a little useless on only some routes.

...and sheepy, your remarks on the alliance's seat pitch are, well... Seat pitch is indeed the 'backbone' of any good seat, but what good's a backbone without any body to support?

I am quite aware that IFS is also a very important part of a flight. However, my comments were in direct reference to this.
"others with MAX configurations"
This is completely and utterly untrue.
There were three aircraft in the entire alliance that were fitted with a poor legroom level, which even then was still not technically maxed, so saying they are is wrong.
All of which were in one airline. "others" clearly implies there was more than one airline, which there simply wasn't. Although this is bad, it's not as big a deal as you clearly attempt to portray.

Offering a meal or snack option at a price in short and medium haul routes is common practice in many carriers depending on the class. If you check their offerings and prices you will most likely find that it’s not uncommon to find options in the menu that cost no more than 50 cents being charged $3 or 4 (400 to 500% profit margin) so offering a snack option that costs $6.95 in AE for $15 (115% profit margin) or a meal option that costs $49.95 in AE for $75 (50% profit margin) in any given class on short to medium haul routes doesn’t seem unrealistic, at least from a profit margin perspective, and it gives a 1* food rating. Adding all accessories for free (5* accessory rating) to achieve an overall IFS rating of 3* while trying to make a profit doesn’t seem to be a scam to me. In any case the meals are options and it’s up to the pax to decide if they want to buy it or not.

It is also not at all common practice in most airlines which claim a high quality.
Sure, there may be a 50c item for $3, but as the item was only 50c in the first place, this markup is obviously clear.
And anyway, the real issue is in fact the total amount of cash that passengers would actually pay.
Your average economy pax will simply not be able to afford the extra $200 for decent food on a long haul flight, even if it is golden caviar.
Unfortunately, the IFS doesn't seem to understand passengers have a spending limit.

Using or promoting an IFS configuration that makes economical sense and uses the current AE economics and marketing tools available to offer a profitable short and medium haul service for FC or a LCC profitable service shouldn't be considered a scam.

Put it this way. Would you like to fly London to Perth and have to pay $75 for meals?
Sounds a bit scammy to me.

Since the so called "AE Gurus" haven't said little to nothing so far it seems that they are still trying to figure out what revenue, profit or marketing is. Gave you a worksheet to do math.

It may come as a shock to you. ( )
But every member of AE will not be online for every minute of the day
Considering I only spend about five minutes on the computer in the mornings, it's obviously unreasonable to expect me to reply to this conversation in that time.
As much as you'd like to think so, I don't make an effort to avoid you.
At any rate, I'll answer this as if I were skygroup.
Revenue is the amount of cash scamming pax generated
Profit is your score in AE
Marketing is an way to buy reputation

[X-Wing @Aliciousness]

^^ Same

(@ Sheepy)

[Alfrenzo]

Before you accuse us: Explain why your members in Matrix Boys II are always online at the same time? M4: R4 is an old world, there's no one. I did Skywards in full service from the start in old R5, mind you.
Obelix: Before calling out on us, fix Skygroup first. We has the ability to criticize and fix fast, unlike you accusers

[2ndAcr]

Excuse me? Who is accusing who?

I represent Matrix Boys, I did not know you could make that much money on the IFS, that was my comment. Otherwise, why on earth would I spend almost a billion a month for no gain?

And feel to conduct a IP ping, we are all different people. I am self employed, so pretty much do as I please all day and night.

Now, if you got something to say about us go ahead and say it. Yes, AHHC got into a tussle with a former member (still is if he gets his Alpha and Beta testing finished)........what went on in their PM's I have no clue except it started a war between the 2. I have seen the accusations, I have seen the flood of profile checks on us.

I have not had an issue with AHHC, as he was informed, the war was between them 2 unless he decided to take it further. Since then me and him have had no issues. I have seen the hints of "cheating" because we have risen so fast in the ranks in O2, well for people who cut their teeth on the hardest, most complicated war games that can be found, this game is not all that hard. Addictive, very. Fun, yes.

I have reached 5th Rank in O2, how, I own my entire fleet. I have not leased an a/c since I hit the 50 mil a day profit. I try to avoid all the petty price wars everyone seems to enjoy. But I will fight them with great gusto when pushed. I always send a warning PM before I initiate any hostilities. Just to make sure they know exactly what they are in for. I do not flood another persons route, just to gain the all mighty market share. Why, I have no need to. I take a small bite and am done. If pushed or challeneged, then I will escalate the fight if need be.

Now I have had dealings with Chia in R5, and it has been a favorable outcome for both parties IMO. We are on several routes together.

Now as to the online at the same time, I am on here more than any of the other players, I know one has a laptop, PC and the high tech cell phone. Me I am self employed so can do as I please. I am the boss so I get to play games all day. I sleep about 4 hours max. Not sure why Matrix Boys II got called in since we have not really been involved in anything in R5. Now the European Group (same people though different world) have been in scuffles, yes we are the top ranked alliance. Yes we ahve 4-5 players in the top 20. I think there are 3-4 of us in top 5.

But like I said, before the game is not that hard. All you have to do is use your head a little. Owning will beat leasing any day of the week. The ranking system works off of value, hence own your planes and cash on hand, and terminals. If you check, I have quite a few terminals. That is how I got to where I am in the game. Add to the fact that I try to avoid the pricing wars. I just let the other airlines pummel themselves into the poor house while I sit back and watch my own little kingdom. But like I said above, if pushed into one, I fight to win.

Now this was a long post and I have avoided getting dragged into some petty BS charges, but your accusation rings of someone looking for a fight. I have been in chat and don't really care for most of the drivel I see there most of the time.

So mister Alfrenzo take all that for what it is worth to you. If you want to take it further, well you know what worlds we operate in. Most here have been polite and helpful, but that last post of yours is flat out insulting to me and my alliance members.

[ar157]

Did you say something about 367 seat A380s? Something about an application in R5? hmm, Greenline has 34x A319 and your R5 Greenline has nothing.

[Alfrenzo]

Excuse me? Who is accusing who? I represent Matrix Boys, I did not know you could make that much money on the IFS, that was my comment. Otherwise, why on earth would I spend almost a billion a month for no gain? And feel to conduct a IP ping, we are all different people. I am self employed, so pretty much do as I please all day and night. Now, if you got something to say about us go ahead and say it. Yes, AHHC got into a tussle with a former member (still is if he gets his Alpha and Beta testing finished)........what went on in their PM's I have no clue except it started a war between the 2. I have seen the accusations, I have seen the flood of profile checks on us. I have not had an issue with AHHC, as he was informed, the war was between them 2 unless he decided to take it further. Since then me and him have had no issues. I have seen the hints of "cheating" because we have risen so fast in the ranks in O2, well for people who cut their teeth on the hardest, most complicated war games that can be found, this game is not all that hard. Addictive, very. Fun, yes. I have reached 5th Rank in O2, how, I own my entire fleet. I have not leased an a/c since I hit the 50 mil a day profit. I try to avoid all the petty price wars everyone seems to enjoy. But I will fight them with great gusto when pushed. I always send a warning PM before I initiate any hostilities. Just to make sure they know exactly what they are in for. I do not flood another persons route, just to gain the all mighty market share. Why, I have no need to. I take a small bite and am done. If pushed or challeneged, then I will escalate the fight if need be. Now I have had dealings with Chia in R5, and it has been a favorable outcome for both parties IMO. We are on several routes together. Now as to the online at the same time, I am on here more than any of the other players, I know one has a laptop, PC and the high tech cell phone. Me I am self employed so can do as I please. I am the boss so I get to play games all day. I sleep about 4 hours max. Not sure why Matrix Boys II got called in since we have not really been involved in anything in R5. Now the European Group (same people though different world) have been in scuffles, yes we are the top ranked alliance. Yes we ahve 4-5 players in the top 20. I think there are 3-4 of us in top 5. But like I said, before the game is not that hard. All you have to do is use your head a little. Owning will beat leasing any day of the week. The ranking system works off of value, hence own your planes and cash on hand, and terminals. If you check, I have quite a few terminals. That is how I got to where I am in the game. Add to the fact that I try to avoid the pricing wars. I just let the other airlines pummel themselves into the poor house while I sit back and watch my own little kingdom. But like I said above, if pushed into one, I fight to win. Now this was a long post and I have avoided getting dragged into some petty BS charges, but your accusation rings of someone looking for a fight. I have been in chat and don't really care for most of the drivel I see there most of the time. So mister Alfrenzo take all that for what it is worth to you. If you want to take it further, well you know what worlds we operate in. Most here have been polite and helpful, but that last post of yours is flat out insulting to me and my alliance members.

No one here can conduct an IP Ping. Your members don't talk except you.

And whatever the case, butting into here is also extremely insulting just as what Skygroup has done.

And, if you have nothing to hide, why did you have to explain so much, and talk so many irrelevant-to-the-topic stuff?

Explanation?